Hofstra vs CoC 1/19/19

[triplec2195]

Triple. Kenny was at the Charleston game. After the game he was on the court talking to Husid

Yeah I thought I saw him but just sayin he hasn't posted here I believe in quite a while that's it. I haven't seen Pat in a while.

[triplec2195]

Yeah HU76 no shot clock and no three pointers but also think about Rood from beyond the arc.

[HU76]

Yeah HU76 no shot clock and no three pointers but also think about Rood from beyond the arc.

That’s right. Most of his shots would be three pointers today. One of the best pure shooters we ever had.

[HUSID74]

Kenny and I were talking Sat about this very subject. He scored 1,300 points at Hofstra. We figured that he would have had another 300 or so points if the three point line was in effect during his career as most of his jumpers were beyond the three point line!

[Wags]

The 1976 and 1977 NCAA tournament teams were the best Hofstra squads that I've seen. Rich Laurel remains my all-time #1 player, followed closely by Speedy and Charles. Justin is close behind.

The late John Irving was phenomenal on the boards. I'd also rate Pat Kammerer from the 76-77 teams as a very effective center.

Pat used to come to the home games. Haven't seen him in a while. Kenny Rood attends most games. Would love to hear their perspectives on their former teammates.

Yes Jojo I loved to watch Laurel very slick but Justin is a magician out there really has highlight reel moves. I had talked to Pat quite a few times at the Mack but you're right its been a while since I've seen him. He has great stories about the old NCAA teams and he's not afraid to tell them. Lol It's also been a while since Rood has posted here. He's keeping a low profile I guess.

The amazing thing about Laurel was that he averaged 30 ppg without a three point line or a shot clock.

Not sure of the ppg average, but the same for Nisenson, who ranks third in Hofstra points all-time, two spots ahead of Laurel. And not only did Nisenson do that without the 3-point line or shot clock, but he did so in only three years, since he wasn't allowed to play as a freshman (due to the rules when he played). Super nice guy, too - was very humble about what he did and very happy for Agudio when Agudio broke his record (before Jenkins broke Agudio's).

Talking about all of those guys, we are all pretty fortunate to have been able to witness some of the greatest Hofstra scorers ever, all within the past 16 seasons. We're talking about other guys like Nisenson and Laurel, going back decades, to the 1960s and 1970s, who were top 5 Hofstra scorers of all-time, and yet JWF (currently 8th) will likely finish his career in the top 5 by the end of this year, which means that since 2003, we will have witnessed four of the top five Hofstra scorers all-time (Jenkins, Agudio, Stokes and JWF). The only guy who would still be in the top five from a much older era would then be Nisenson, which speaks even more to his amazing scoring ability when he played.

Here are the top 8, through JWF:

1) Jenkins 2,513
2) Agudio 2,276
3) Nisenson 2,222
4) Stokes 2,148
5) Laurel 2,102
6) Thieben 2,045
7) Speedy 2,015
8) JWF 1,902

[stuball888]

Also if you think about it JWF will accomplish a top 5 scorer In what amounts to three seasons. Remember he was usedvery sparingly inhis freshman year

[HU76]

They also played fewer games back then which makes Nisenson’s numbers even more impressive.

[triplec2195]

Also if you think about it JWF will accomplish a top 5 scorer In what amounts to three seasons. Remember he was usedvery sparingly inhis freshman year

and a real shame we didn't see him get more minutes which even JAM conceded.

[triplec2195]

Kenny and I were talking Sat about this very subject. He scored 1,300 points at Hofstra. We figured that he would have had another 300 or so points if the three point line was in effect during his career as most of his jumpers were beyond the three point line!

He also had a very unique shot with a real arc to it. It sought of went up into the clouds and came down thru the hoop.

[Jojogunne]

Was just looking at Grant Riller's bio. Did not know we had recruited him:

https://cofcsports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3772

[Polito]

That kid can ball - he should be taking WAY more shots for CofC - but that team has no leadership, and little chemistry - can see just how damaging that can be to a talented team. Alas, no sympathy, they've had plenty of play recently, it's time for DUTCH

Ah, memories of Stokes - was excited about him from his recruitment up in Buffalo and then at St. Thomas More in CT. An A10 talent. Kid was a fantastic all-out all-in player, and a superstar for HU. He sometimes gets lost in the Speedy, Jenkins, Green talk, but shouldn't - he's right up there, and balled against a very tough CAA during his time.

Same with Agudio who for those who followed him at Walt Whitman knew he was going to come in and light this place up. Even despite the lesser LI competition, he just had "it" - his shot was a thing of beauty even at that level on. They certainly deserve and earned their place among the all-time greats. Man HU has had some really really good guards in it's history - a blessing for us fans!


And call me crazy, but Rok has actually decreased in stock for me due to this year - and this is from a guy who was all about him, incorrectly promoting how he could've and should've been an NBA guy hey, win some, lose some.

Don't get me wrong please, I still love value and respect Rok big time, he was a good one for HU. BUT this team is MUCH better without him, and it's not even close. If I got to choose now I'd take JT all day long. Forget Roks FT's which absolutely cost games for HU over the years, it was his non-existent defense that was even worse and prob cost more as it had a monster impact on how teams played HU and how HU had to play in return. Yeah, he rebounded the world, and no doubt he was the best for HU in the modern era - but if he plays this year I'd bet money HU isn't as good. In hindsight to me, he was actually a HUGE liability, moreso than his rebounding produced in positive IMO.

I'm less impressed with Rok than I've ever been. And I still think he was good, but not nearly as much as I did. But hey, that's just me.

[triplec2195]

You've made good points here Polito about ROK vs Taylor. We have all been frustrated at the way opposing teams got easy layups in the past now most everything is contested down low. Even Dwyer puts up resistance down there albeit not as effective as Taylor but its refreshing to make teams have to work for their points. I'm all in that this team is far better with Taylor and Taylor has embraced his roll and is really flourishing in this system. He appears to get better with every game. Of course not having any weak links in the chain at the FT line is another plus of this team.

[daHUPride]

That kid can ball - he should be taking WAY more shots for CofC - but that team has no leadership, and little chemistry - can see just how damaging that can be to a talented team. Alas, no sympathy, they've had plenty of play recently, it's time for DUTCH

Ah, memories of Stokes - was excited about him from his recruitment up in Buffalo and then at St. Thomas More in CT. An A10 talent. Kid was a fantastic all-out all-in player, and a superstar for HU. He sometimes gets lost in the Speedy, Jenkins, Green talk, but shouldn't - he's right up there, and balled against a very tough CAA during his time.

Same with Agudio who for those who followed him at Walt Whitman knew he was going to come in and light this place up. Even despite the lesser LI competition, he just had "it" - his shot was a thing of beauty even at that level on. They certainly deserve and earned their place among the all-time greats. Man HU has had some really really good guards in it's history - a blessing for us fans!

And call me crazy, but Rok has actually decreased in stock for me due to this year - and this is from a guy who was all about him, incorrectly promoting how he could've and should've been an NBA guy hey, win some, lose some.

Don't get me wrong please, I still love value and respect Rok big time, he was a good one for HU. BUT this team is MUCH better without him, and it's not even close. If I got to choose now I'd take JT all day long. Forget Roks FT's which absolutely cost games for HU over the years, it was his non-existent defense that was even worse and prob cost more as it had a monster impact on how teams played HU and how HU had to play in return. Yeah, he rebounded the world, and no doubt he was the best for HU in the modern era - but if he plays this year I'd bet money HU isn't as good. In hindsight to me, he was actually a HUGE liability, moreso than his rebounding produced in positive IMO.

I'm less impressed with Rok than I've ever been. And I still think he was good, but not nearly as much as I did. But hey, that's just me.

I agree with you Polito.
Stokes - was awesome - absolutely in the class with Speedy, Jenkins, Green and JFW.
Agudio - a great shooter.
Ive been a season ticketholder since the Stokes/Aguidio/Rivera era.
I have not seen all the BIGS mentioned - never saw Springfield - but Uter on those Pecora teams was a battler whos game I loved.
Gustys v Taylor? I take Taylor.
That said Gustys was the right guy for that Green lead team. That 2015-16 team had a much more balanced starting 5 then this years team (that team had 5 guys that averaged at least 5 rebounds, this years team has 3; that team had 5 guys that averaged 10 points or more, this years team 2). Gustys was a excellent 3-4-5 option, not a great main guy-excelled with Green.
Taylor is a mature role player - offensively good touch from 12" and from the stripe; more athletic fits better with DB, JFW and EP.

[HUSID74]

That kid can ball - he should be taking WAY more shots for CofC - but that team has no leadership, and little chemistry - can see just how damaging that can be to a talented team. Alas, no sympathy, they've had plenty of play recently, it's time for DUTCH

Ah, memories of Stokes - was excited about him from his recruitment up in Buffalo and then at St. Thomas More in CT. An A10 talent. Kid was a fantastic all-out all-in player, and a superstar for HU. He sometimes gets lost in the Speedy, Jenkins, Green talk, but shouldn't - he's right up there, and balled against a very tough CAA during his time.

Same with Agudio who for those who followed him at Walt Whitman knew he was going to come in and light this place up. Even despite the lesser LI competition, he just had "it" - his shot was a thing of beauty even at that level on. They certainly deserve and earned their place among the all-time greats. Man HU has had some really really good guards in it's history - a blessing for us fans!


And call me crazy, but Rok has actually decreased in stock for me due to this year - and this is from a guy who was all about him, incorrectly promoting how he could've and should've been an NBA guy hey, win some, lose some.

Don't get me wrong please, I still love value and respect Rok big time, he was a good one for HU. BUT this team is MUCH better without him, and it's not even close. If I got to choose now I'd take JT all day long. Forget Roks FT's which absolutely cost games for HU over the years, it was his non-existent defense that was even worse and prob cost more as it had a monster impact on how teams played HU and how HU had to play in return. Yeah, he rebounded the world, and no doubt he was the best for HU in the modern era - but if he plays this year I'd bet money HU isn't as good. In hindsight to me, he was actually a HUGE liability, moreso than his rebounding produced in positive IMO.

I'm less impressed with Rok than I've ever been. And I still think he was good, but not nearly as much as I did. But hey, that's just me.

I would argue that John Irving was Hofstra's best rebounder by far in the Division One era. He won the national rebounding championship one year and came within 100th of a rebound to Seton Hall's Glenn Mosley a second time.

If John had larger hands, small for a freakish athlete that he was, he would have no doubt been in the NBA. He was still a second round draft choice.

[Cards]

You've made good points here Polito about ROK vs Taylor. We have all been frustrated at the way opposing teams got easy layups in the past now most everything is contested down low. Even Dwyer puts up resistance down there albeit not as effective as Taylor but its refreshing to make teams have to work for their points. I'm all in that this team is far better with Taylor and Taylor has embraced his roll and is really flourishing in this system. He appears to get better with every game. Of course not having any weak links in the chain at the FT line is another plus of this team.

I don't necessarily disagree with the comparisons being made. I do think, however, that its not as simple as just comparing one player to another and not taking into account the performance/contributions of the rest of the team. I do think that the guards are doing a better job on the perimeter this year than last year when preventing the easy drives. Some times last year Rok was hung-out-to-dry trying to stop driving guards that had a full head of steam with no one else near them. Second point would be (and I believe JM realized this and made the adjustment) that this year, the guards have been told "we don't have Rok, and you guys are going to have to help more now than last year". I think the improvement on the perimeter and the help underneath is clearly visible with this years team.

Essentially, its difficult to compare in isolation. Is this years team better because of JT, or is this years team better because the entire team is better. Has DB coming into his own and getting more assists made a difference? Has JWF becoming more of a complete player made a difference? Of course, all the contributions add up (from both players and coaches) and I think that is why we are all comfortable saying this years TEAM is better.

[Wags]

That kid can ball - he should be taking WAY more shots for CofC - but that team has no leadership, and little chemistry - can see just how damaging that can be to a talented team. Alas, no sympathy, they've had plenty of play recently, it's time for DUTCH

Ah, memories of Stokes - was excited about him from his recruitment up in Buffalo and then at St. Thomas More in CT. An A10 talent. Kid was a fantastic all-out all-in player, and a superstar for HU. He sometimes gets lost in the Speedy, Jenkins, Green talk, but shouldn't - he's right up there, and balled against a very tough CAA during his time.

Same with Agudio who for those who followed him at Walt Whitman knew he was going to come in and light this place up. Even despite the lesser LI competition, he just had "it" - his shot was a thing of beauty even at that level on. They certainly deserve and earned their place among the all-time greats. Man HU has had some really really good guards in it's history - a blessing for us fans!


And call me crazy, but Rok has actually decreased in stock for me due to this year - and this is from a guy who was all about him, incorrectly promoting how he could've and should've been an NBA guy hey, win some, lose some.

Don't get me wrong please, I still love value and respect Rok big time, he was a good one for HU. BUT this team is MUCH better without him, and it's not even close. If I got to choose now I'd take JT all day long. Forget Roks FT's which absolutely cost games for HU over the years, it was his non-existent defense that was even worse and prob cost more as it had a monster impact on how teams played HU and how HU had to play in return. Yeah, he rebounded the world, and no doubt he was the best for HU in the modern era - but if he plays this year I'd bet money HU isn't as good. In hindsight to me, he was actually a HUGE liability, moreso than his rebounding produced in positive IMO.

I'm less impressed with Rok than I've ever been. And I still think he was good, but not nearly as much as I did. But hey, that's just me.

Sorry to admit it too, because I have great respect for Rok. First, he's a great guy and was an outstanding teammate. Second, a lot of rebounding is effort and hustle. To come within 9 boards of David Robinson's all-time CAA record says a lot about how much ok hustled when it came to rebounding. And he did score enough to be a double-double machine, which is no small thing... even some 20-20 games in there. I still loved seeing him play for Hofstra. That won't change. But that said, what you're saying here may be true to a fairly large degree. In Rok's defense, I think the quality and quantity of opposing CAA bigs isn't what it used to be this year. So maybe the improvement with Hofstra's interior D has something to do with that besides simply Taylor > Rok defensively. Also, I think overall, the guards are guarding better, the coaching, the schemes are a bit better. So, also in Rok's defense, it's not ALL addition by subtraction. And all of his defensive rebounds are part of defense as well. BUT, there is still some truth to what you're saying here. I think it's a combination of all of the aforementioned, with simply ONE of those things being Taylor > Rok defensively.

As for Stokes - the reason he's one of my all-time HU favorites is that he still remains the most fearless Hofstra player I've ever seen. We all know how slight he was physically. There wasn't much meat on that thin frame to protect those bones everytime he got hit hard and fell to the ground after attacking the rim. Yet he did it repeatedly and without trepidation. And you almost never saw him complain, not to refs (when he could have), not teammates, not even after Tony Skinn gave him one of the dirtiest shots you could give a player on a basketball floor. He simply put his head down and went back to work. He was all business all the time, all about wanting to win. After that Skinn shot, he was still hampered by it for much of the title game against UNCW, which played a huge role in HU falling behind by about 20. But once again, he just fought through that, no complaints, and led HU back into the game, within 3 or 4 before he and HU ran out of gas and lost. Have great respect for a lot of HU players over the years, both stars and non-stars (some, as much as Stokes), but I've respected no HU player more than Stokes.

[daHUPride]

I think we ALL think highly of RG - and I know as the years go on he will be appreciated even more for his entire body of work (for years of a beast). Taylor - sounds like its a one and done - but this one has the potential of being pretty special.

[HU76]

That kid can ball - he should be taking WAY more shots for CofC - but that team has no leadership, and little chemistry - can see just how damaging that can be to a talented team. Alas, no sympathy, they've had plenty of play recently, it's time for DUTCH

Ah, memories of Stokes - was excited about him from his recruitment up in Buffalo and then at St. Thomas More in CT. An A10 talent. Kid was a fantastic all-out all-in player, and a superstar for HU. He sometimes gets lost in the Speedy, Jenkins, Green talk, but shouldn't - he's right up there, and balled against a very tough CAA during his time.

Same with Agudio who for those who followed him at Walt Whitman knew he was going to come in and light this place up. Even despite the lesser LI competition, he just had "it" - his shot was a thing of beauty even at that level on. They certainly deserve and earned their place among the all-time greats. Man HU has had some really really good guards in it's history - a blessing for us fans!


And call me crazy, but Rok has actually decreased in stock for me due to this year - and this is from a guy who was all about him, incorrectly promoting how he could've and should've been an NBA guy hey, win some, lose some.

Don't get me wrong please, I still love value and respect Rok big time, he was a good one for HU. BUT this team is MUCH better without him, and it's not even close. If I got to choose now I'd take JT all day long. Forget Roks FT's which absolutely cost games for HU over the years, it was his non-existent defense that was even worse and prob cost more as it had a monster impact on how teams played HU and how HU had to play in return. Yeah, he rebounded the world, and no doubt he was the best for HU in the modern era - but if he plays this year I'd bet money HU isn't as good. In hindsight to me, he was actually a HUGE liability, moreso than his rebounding produced in positive IMO.

I'm less impressed with Rok than I've ever been. And I still think he was good, but not nearly as much as I did. But hey, that's just me.

I would argue that John Irving was Hofstra's best rebounder by far in the Division One era. He won the national rebounding championship one year and came within 100th of a rebound to Seton Hall's Glenn Mosley a second time.

If John had larger hands, small for a freakish athlete that he was, he would have no doubt been in the NBA. He was still a second round draft choice.

I agree. He was also a 1000 point scorer.

[EvanJ]

In Rok's defense, I think the quality and quantity of opposing CAA bigs isn't what it used to be this year.

Half of the Top 20 rebounders from last season aren't in the CAA anymore, but I wouldn't say the CAA lost great bigs other than Gustys. Drexel's Austin Williams averaged 8.5 points and 3.0 blocks, but like Taylor he wasn't relied on to shoot. Drexel's Tramaine Isabell averaged 7.5, but he's 6 feet 1. Marcus Bryan averaged 6.9, but Cacok was UNCW's top big. Justin Gorham led Towson with 6.7 and transferred. Elon's Dmitri Thompson (5.3) and Brian Dawkins graduated (5.4), but they both had over 40 percent of their field goal attempts be threes. Delaware's Ryan Daly averaged 6.2 and transferred, but he was a guard. Towson's Eddie Keith II averaged 4.9 and graduated, and Charleston's Joe Chealey averaged 4.6 and graduated. Both of them were guards. This season's Top 20 rebounders don't have any freshmen, but it has plenty of transfers or players averaging a lot more rebounds than last season. Taylor (7.9), Towson's Dennis Tunstall (7.9), Drexel's James Butler (7.8), and James Madison's Dwight Wilson (7.4) are averaging over 7 rebounds after not being in the CAA or averaging under 4.6 last season.

I think Taylor, UNCW's Cacok, Northeastern's Anthony Green, Delaware's Eric Carter, and Charleston's Brantley who are all seniors are a better set of bigs than the best five from last season who left.

[ZMAN3]

You guys left out David Taylor in your Center list - Played for HU from '79-83 - Career Avg 17 ppg and 8.7 boards for 4 years including ECC POY his senior season. Shot 53.5 from field and decent 69.6 from line. 1.2 steals and 1.7 blocks!