Flying Dutchmen Fans

100% SPOT ON Dooku. Thank you. Exactly what I am saying, but I fully own that my versions are a bit rougher around the edges. Hey, I'm working on it

What's amazing to me is, JM's time is somewhat winding down. You would think this guy would literally do whatever it takes to finish the job right while there's still time. Yet here we are, same deal every single year. And the real kicker is that the very person making the excuse and pointing out the problem with the yearly 'you dance with who you brung' routine is the VERY SAME person who actually CAN and SHOULD do something about it!! "Feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"

I have no doubt that he will finish his career here, and you know what, I'm actually in a place where I would not have an issue with that. He'll prob end up doing a fine job as he's done thus far. But the only thing is 'fine' just isn't enough at this point. Not to anyone who wants to dance at least. Despite what it may seem like a times, what we DO have here is not lost on me at all. Tiring of winning 20+ with no dance and an NIT is a helluva lot better than bottom feeding. Yeah, sure, you can go cherry pick one of my heated moments and crucify me for it - but after the emotion I'm right here leveled in logic.

Fully agree that JM literally does nearly everything right, that's the funniest part!! LOL - he really does, even I can see that. He's actually not that far off!! Wish he could see that. He has a couple of flaws, as we all do, that we need him to get right at least one as much as possible. I don't care about the words that come out of his mouth regarding defense, I care about ACTION and what I see. And the two don't match.

Simple adage for mids to make a run: You need to be old, and you need to be deep. He has done a great job with the old part, HU routinely has elder leaders. But the 'deep' part means 7-8 regular rotation guys that can play CAA ball. JM plays 6 every year. And it's starting to seem like he refuses to do it any differently just to try and prove it can be done. It's getting silly. Hey if it's not your strength, then bring someone in who is a defensive mind - this really isn't that hard of a concept.

Pusica played 28 minutes folks. 28. Well rested killer. Can you imagine HU winning anything with JWF playing that few? Green? Every star JM runs into the ground every year? Not a chance. And that right there is one of THE MAIN issues. And it is 100% fixable.

If this man would just work on defensive and depth development, my goodness the CAA is there for the taking. Good mid sure, but it is so winnable these days it's not even funny. I am truly totally bewildered that this concept is so lost on a coach with limited time left in the game. I think he needs to take a step back and get some guidance from other mid major Cinderella's and learn how to replicate that here.

It CAN be done - but my Lord, you have GOT to be willing to adapt and change when it's truly necessary.

These things need to be put to rest:

1. Fatigue had nothing to do with it. (Scored 48 points in second half and had an effective press. Losing your man on defense is not from fatigue.) Stop with that !
2. We couldn't play man-to-man. (I don't have the time to explain it to you but things would have gotten tremendously worse. When JT covered the foul line, they could post-up on TC or EP). Stop with that.
3. We will never have a 9 man rotation. EVER !. Stop with that.
4. If ST or KW could play, guess what ? They would have !!! (Look at the tape where ST crashes the boards AFTER the rebound was secure by Delaware. Guess what ? A transition basket. You want things to get out of hand......play someone who IS your 9th man.) stop with that !
5. We now have brand recognition. We have a chance of not rebuilding but re-loading. How'd we get there ???? Hard work from the staff and administration. rabinowitz' tweet was spot-on. So, stop with that too !

oh, and BTW, JWF is not "just another" HU guard........

This banter could go on ad infinitum here and I appreciate you Polito softening up your tone re the team cause clearly you're very passionate about this program and a part of the solution. If u didn't care you wouldn't be posting anything. Dutchie u r so right when u say JWF is not just another guard and we're going to find this out very quickly come November no matter who's going to replace him. Assuming that Taylor is not getting another year we have a lot of big voids to fill. Kante will slip into the 5 who IMO will be an unknown to some degree kind of like a freshman even though the talk is he has a lot of upside. How do we replace 26+ points a game. Jalen Ray I guess will start and I wonder what is projected for him point wise per game?? It certainly seems pretty clear that if we can't replace JWF scoring which I don't know how that's going to be possible then we better start working on a shut down defense. We're going to need to be a far better team DEFENSIVELY next year to be competitive in this league and contrary to what some say here this is not an easy league to win especially the way the tourney is set up.

Polito wrote: Pusica played 28 minutes folks. 28. Well rested killer. Can you imagine HU winning anything with JWF playing that few? Green? Every star JM runs into the ground every year? Not a chance. And that right there is one of THE MAIN issues. And it is 100% fixable.

Get your point, but he averages 34.9 and he played all 40 against Charleston in the semis. He played 28 because he sat the final 9 mins of the first half with foul trouble, not because Coen was resting him so he could be fresher at the end.

I'm sure Joe would love to routinely use his bench more, all with meaningful minutes. But he has to play who he can trust. If he sees in practice that guys aren't good enough to earn game minutes, I don't blame him for not putting them on the floor. You're probably going to win considerably fewer than 27 games and get knocked out earlier than the CAA finals that way.

I think it's far more of an inability to recruit guys who are good enough to fill that role of a 7th or 8th spot rather than stubbornness or unwillingness to extend the rotation with reserves who can play. The thing is (at least in his judgment and maybe that of his staff as well), they can't play. So they don't.

I also really can't take hearing so much about fatigue due to a thin bench when Bolden Brace played all 40 minutes in the championship game and nearly had a triple-double (10 pts, 10 reb, 9 ast) with only 1 turnover.

And as Joe said in the post-finals presser, they make their practices harder than the games, and routinely do that three days in a row, so they are well prepared for 3 in 3 days in the CAA tourney. The thin bench starts with recruiting (not stubbornness). Even before Joe, that has been their M.O. -- they recruit very top-heavy. Terrific at finding the absolute best of the CAA, but poor at finding enough legit reserves. When that's how you recruit, is it any wonder you have 6 POYs in 13 years, but fall just short of cutting the nets every time you have a chance to do so? That should be expected in that case. Why is that a surprise when we all know how they're built each year? This is nothing new. What other CAA program (or any program in college hoops, maybe) ever has a two-time POY (like Jenkins) on a 7th-place team (like HU finished one of the years he was a POY)? That tells you all you need to know about how top-heavy they have recruited for years. That said though, not cutting the nets has been far more about an inability to execute in the biggest games in the tourney than how deep the rotation has been.

All I know is that Joe kept referencing the reason that they lost was because they played so poorly in the first half but knowing that we came back to tie this game would only lead you to hypothesize that read between the lines we were spent having to make up the 16 point deficit and didn't have the reserve to sustain that same effort the rest of the game.

triplec2195 wrote:All I know is that Joe kept referencing the reason that they lost was because they played so poorly in the first half but knowing that we came back to tie this game would only lead you to hypothesize that read between the lines we were spent having to make up the 16 point deficit and didn't have the reserve to sustain that same effort the rest of the game.

That's all true, but when you don't have anyone to turn to on your bench, because you didn't recruit well enough down the line enough to go 7, 8, 9 deep, who are you putting in to keep the starters fresher?

Also, had they played defense and moved the ball offensively they way they should have in the first half, they never would've been down by as much as 18, wouldn't have had to expend so energy to come back, and would've been fresher down the stretch. So again, that comes back to execution more than rotation.

I wonder in the world of recruiting how players feel knowing that they're being recruited to just play token minutes and be good practice fodder for the starters. I know there r lots of kids playing for big programs that spend a lot of time watching it from the bench. I even remember Joe talking about TC and how he told Joe he wanted to start and Joe said well then you have to play harder/score more etc. We're not the only school in D-1 that plays with 7-8 players.
Of course we would have been in better shape had we played better all around in the first half but boy did we seem listless and downtrodden! Their certainly didn't seem to be any excuse for this we should have been incredibly motivated.

Like many on this board I was bitterly disappointed at the same old result but gratified we were in the position to have high hopes. My expectations however were low after COC lost in the Semi's. NE is a far better coached team and will represent the conference well barring a really terrible match up. Coaching is a major component of peoples ratings, not just personnel. It is telling that NONE of the analysts I saw ,and I saw quite a few, picked us to win our tournament. Most picked. NE, some COC and even W+M. I absolutely agree with those who believe we would have been dancing more than 1 of Joe's 6 yrs with a couple of the top coaches at the helm of our personnel.
Joe is a terrific guy, every one likes him. He never has a bad word to say about anyone. His teams are loyal they transfer too him not away and they play hard for him. He preaches toughness, taking it personally, he praises, he knows how to motivate. He has recruited well, although better the first 3 yrs I feel.
This is an important year, I am anxious to see who we add beyond Cramer. Joes analysis is always a generic description, playing tough defense, eliminating a dry patch,... but never specific to what needs to be done. Did anyone here the Belmont coach at half time of their conf. game with Murrey St.? It was a great illustration of a coach that sees what is going on, WHY, and what to do about it.
I thought Flying Dutchman synthesized well when he said: what we have is really good but in order to be great some things have to change. What is maddening is that we lose the same way every year, no D., no bench and insufficient heighth/length. After 6 yrs. we are entitled to ask questions.

I'll take 27 wins and a berth in the Conference finals all day...with mid-major conferences like ours, getting to the dance is a crap shoot.

Very happy with the overall season, very disappointed in the final game...

HUSID74 wrote:I'll take 27 wins and a berth in the Conference finals all day...with mid-major conferences like ours, getting to the dance is a crap shoot.

Very happy with the overall season, very disappointed in the final game...

This is how I look at it, too. Unfortunately, this is the system we have. Still have to get it done like Northeastern did. But this was one of the most successful seasons ever for a program that only had four DI trips all-time to the NCAAT and no wins in the NCAAT. For a program like that to be knocking on the door twice in the past four years is pretty successful compared to the past. Simply have to take that next step. And I'm not at all about participation trophies. There are winners and losers, that's it. But that shouldn't take away from one of the best seasons Hofstra men's basketball has ever had in a history going back several decades.

Take Monmouth, for example - they had a lousy season overall, including an 0-12 start. But had they won just one more game, they go to the NCAAT at 15-20. Even if they did that, who had the better body of work, Monmouth or Hofstra? If you're not saying Hofstra by a mile, you're not being honest. But this is just how it is. The margin for error is small. Even with losing the CAA final, had Hofstra found a way to pull out a two-point OT loss at VCU and hung on at Maryland (they led by eight in the second half and were only down five with a little over 10 minutes left), people might be making a strong case for them for an at-large today. It's not like they missed the NCAAT by very much at all. Unfortunately, there's a very fine line for schools like HU. Just how it is.

In-conference records for past 5 years:

Joe 58-32
Coen 57-33
Grant 51-39
Skerry 41-49
Matheny 36-54
Ingelsby 19-35 (3)
Rowe 19-35 (3)
Spiker 16-38 (3)
McGrath 12-24 (2)

CAA COY, USBBWA COY, Skip Prosser Award Finalist, not to mention MAAC COY x3, prior Skip Prosser Award winner, NCAA's, NIT's............

John Cheyney ONLY played zone. Bobby Knight ONLY played man.

Disappointed ? Sure. But we have a brand recognition and a respected program once again.

Looking forward to tonight's draw !

lol ok.

You forgot: Coen *2* NCAA's. Joe *0*. Sorry, but be fair. All your stats did to me is show just how silly it is Joe hasn't won the big game. What's it gonna take? The greatest player of all time in the history of the HU program?? I mean, that's about all is left. And even then I have doubts.

Not sure what your point is - even guys like me have credited JM and this staff to no end about what they've done. But also credited them for the major misses - it's been 6 years man. Gotta start to own up to some things.

Is HU a winner now? Absolutely and they've been given the nod for that ad nauseam around here and elsewhere. Brand recognition? Sure an offensive powerhouse that plays no D and runs 6 guys into the ground and never wins the big one. I mean, two-way street here.

Not sure who the other comments were meant for, but some follow up from me:

I've never to my knowledge called for 9 players. But 7-8?? Damn straight. And MANY mids do it, esp ones that go dancing and make a run. Silly to excuse otherwise. NU and CofC have it in this conf alone. Loyola last year? Had *7* guys who won state championships on their roster, played more. Remember when Mason used to sub in full 5 every time?? By my simple math that = 10 playable guys.

Don't tell me 7-8 guys isn't possible at this level - because that's not factual in any way.

I think everyone here knows exactly why HU has to rely on zone and why guys like ST and KW rarely played. And THAT is called depth - and THAT is on the staff. It needs to be corrected. Depth and D - fix it, and go dancing. Don't, and it will be almost / woulda / coulda / shoulda / 2nd fiddle / etc. every year.

I repeat: I'm not looking for Joe to go. Have said so many times now. Also said clearly this staff does nearly everything right! They won't be perfect, none are, and I don't expect that - BUT it must fix these things to dance. I think everyone here should be able to align with that by now. And more importantly, I sure hope JM and this staff get it through their heads and make the changes. HU is not WM, thankfully. It's been long enough for us to start to expect to dance now.

EDIT: Oh, and I have NEVER said JWF is just another guard - I said he is just another in a long line of GREAT guards. That's an important difference. And he is. I mean it sounds silly and spoiled, I get it, and we have been spoiled by some SUPER guards over the decades, so it's not like a huge major complaint - I rather this than not!!!

Now some may not like that and take it as a knock, but let's be real here, Stokes Agudio Jenkins Green Foreman, all tremendous guards that have their place in Hofstra lore. They all earned it, and JWF will have his name in the books for a very very long time, as he has earned and deserves.

But only Speedy danced in the modern era. I LOVE the kid. It's not a slight. It's just a fact.

Now if he leads this team to an NIT Final Four, that will change. Not one win, HU already 2 NIT wins before with 2 of those guards I mentioned. If he wants Speedy level status without dancing, then it's the NIT FINAL FOUR. I mean let's get it, I'm all for it, and I'll start loud threads about it

Polito wrote:lol ok.

You forgot: Coen *2* NCAA's. Joe *0*. Sorry, but be fair. All your stats did to me is show just how silly it is Joe hasn't won the big game. What's it gonna take? The greatest player of all time in the history of the HU program?? I mean, that's about all is left. And even then I have doubts.

Not sure what your point is - even guys like me have credited JM and this staff to no end about what they've done. But also credited them for the major misses - it's been 6 years man. Gotta start to own up to some things.

Is HU a winner now? Absolutely and they've been given the nod for that ad nauseam around here and elsewhere. Brand recognition? Sure an offensive powerhouse that plays no D and runs 6 guys into the ground and never wins the big one. I mean, two-way street here.

Not sure who the other comments were meant for, but some follow up from me:

I've never to my knowledge called for 9 players. But 7-8?? Damn straight. And MANY mids do it, esp ones that go dancing and make a run. Silly to excuse otherwise. NU and CofC have it in this conf alone. Loyola last year? Had *7* guys who won state championships on their roster, played more. Remember when Mason used to sub in full 5 every time?? By my simple math that = 10 playable guys.

Don't tell me 7-8 guys isn't possible at this level - because that's not factual in any way.

I think everyone here knows exactly why HU has to rely on zone and why guys like ST and KW rarely played. And THAT is called depth - and THAT is on the staff. It needs to be corrected. Depth and D - fix it, and go dancing. Don't, and it will be almost / woulda / coulda / shoulda / 2nd fiddle / etc. every year.

I repeat: I'm not looking for Joe to go. Have said so many times now. Also said clearly this staff does nearly everything right! They won't be perfect, none are, and I don't expect that - BUT it must fix these things to dance. I think everyone here should be able to align with that by now. And more importantly, I sure hope JM and this staff get it through their heads and make the changes. HU is not WM, thankfully. It's been long enough for us to start to expect to dance now.

EDIT: Oh, and I have NEVER said JWF is just another guard - I said he is just another in a long line of GREAT guards. That's an important difference. And he is. I mean it sounds silly and spoiled, I get it, and we have been spoiled by some SUPER guards over the decades, so it's not like a huge major complaint - I rather this than not!!!

Now some may not like that and take it as a knock, but let's be real here, Stokes Agudio Jenkins Green Foreman, all tremendous guards that have their place in Hofstra lore. They all earned it, and JWF will have his name in the books for a very very long time, as he has earned and deserves.

But only Speedy danced in the modern era. I LOVE the kid. It's not a slight. It's just a fact.

Now if he leads this team to an NIT Final Four, that will change. Not one win, HU already 2 NIT wins before with 2 of those guards I mentioned. If he wants Speedy level status without dancing, then it's the NIT FINAL FOUR. I mean let's get it, I'm all for it, and I'll start loud threads about it

Not sure why you're putting this SO much on JWF when he played well in the CAA tourney this year and the team around him didn't do what THEY needed to do to dance.

For me, the comparsion comes down to this:
Put Speedy on JWF's team and vice versa. Does Speedy come up short of the NCAAT like JWF did? Good chance, I think.
Does JWF dance out of the AE? Probably.
And I think you could say the same for switching Jenkins and Speedy, too.

By the way, Joe went to two NCAA Tourneys while at Niagara I believe.

HUSID74 wrote:By the way, Joe went to two NCAA Tourneys while at Niagara I believe.

Yes, and 3 NITs.

But, including his trips with Hofstra, he's 0-for-7 in the NCAAT/NIT/CBI.

So, there's something at stake for him personally tomorrow, too. Would be nice to see him finally get that first postseason win.