Wanted: Coaches

[Wags]

FWIW...Joe's son Joe Jr, an asst at Penn is dancing, as it our own Bob McKillop at Davidson

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Our old CAA friends, Georgia State, too, out of the Sun Belt.

[HUSID74]

OK fellas it's time to put your money where your mouth is or is it more like HU throwing their hat in the ring now that Kevin Ollie has been fired at UCONN. So after
having a 97-44 record in his first 4 years and winning The NCAAT in 2014 he gets canned for I guess improprieties involving the basketball program. His last two seasons he went 30-35. Do u think he can have us playing defense here and get us some good recruits? His salary is listed as 1.3 mil which means that a lot of us boosters are going to have to go to the well way down in that well it sounds like. I think with the ties Jeff Hathaway has with UCONN we might be considered one of the front runners! Si or No?? We could probably win consecutive CAA championships here but would we be sacrificing the integrity of the program that Joe has worked hard to re-establish? I know it's a pipe dream but I thought I would have some fun with this one!!

Don't go there...he got lucky with the team he inherited and now is being investigated...wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole even if we were looking which is NOT the case.

[The Shadow]

NO!!!!!!! I do not want to see any more shady coaches, unprepared coaches, or drunk coaches. HU would probably have a very difficult time recovering from another bad time. I could even guess the entire athletic department would have serious changes to the point of elimination. Integrity and honesty are very important to me as a fan.

[triplec2195]

OK fellas it's time to put your money where your mouth is or is it more like HU throwing their hat in the ring now that Kevin Ollie has been fired at UCONN. So after
having a 97-44 record in his first 4 years and winning The NCAAT in 2014 he gets canned for I guess improprieties involving the basketball program. His last two seasons he went 30-35. Do u think he can have us playing defense here and get us some good recruits? His salary is listed as 1.3 mil which means that a lot of us boosters are going to have to go to the well way down in that well it sounds like. I think with the ties Jeff Hathaway has with UCONN we might be considered one of the front runners! Si or No?? We could probably win consecutive CAA championships here but would we be sacrificing the integrity of the program that Joe has worked hard to re-establish? I know it's a pipe dream but I thought I would have some fun with this one!!

Don't go there...he got lucky with the team he inherited and now is being investigated...wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole even if we were looking which is NOT the case.

I obviously posted this as a joke since I'm a big advocate of integrity in college sports but just wanted to see if anyone would go for the carrot!! I'm sure some were tempted.

[triplec2195]

I dont understand. When I say the team stunk, I get people chirping. When I say the team is going to be good, I get people saying cool the breaks. I don't get it. If we don't stink, but we aren't good to win a championship in our league, what is the point of competing? Shouldn't we expect more here? Maybe lets leave the conference? We have behttp://www.flyingdutchmenfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1591en battling mediocrity for 18 years here now.

When triplec mentioned that filling Rok would be a tough task, he mentioned 2 players on the roster already. No one mentioned any incoming freshmen? Do we not have a single one signed yet? None will be impactful? Isn't it a tad late in the game? Maybe we can get a grad kid again. To say we will miss Angus though triple? I mean, maybe he was a nice kid, but him and Sabety aren't logging these major minutes to say that we will miss them. Just nice program seniors. I would expect them to be easily replaceable.

Wags, I rarely if ever speak on recruits. I don't follow the circuit at a mid-major level. So I don't want to say that the entire board hypes them up. Your last post though stinks of mediocrity. I just want to know when we are allowed to be upset when we don't win the league? TBH, I posted that we will be good next year because everyone was upset that I said we stunk months ago. I don't think we will win next year. I posted it because many people, not all on here think its all rainbows and butterflies. I want to win, I am tired of not winning. So if we aren't going to win next year, when will we win?

I also want no part of Kevin Ollie. Inherited a great team, and stunk after that. I wouldn't be surprised if his name was involved in the recruiting scandals.

You know Hofstra we have had plenty of posts disparaging both ROK and Sabety. I've defended both now it's water under the bridge. I really liked Sabety and the energy he brought to our team the minute he stepped onto the floor. He was a very intense player and players fed off of his intense style of play. Not everything shows up in the box score. I like to know at this minute who's going to replace him?? Also I mentioned all three seniors in this post out of respect for Angus who really played respectably for us and basically was everything we thought he would be based on his prior experience and numbers. Also sad that an injury ended his college career. Both Sabety and Angus brought us years of experience on the floor and both will be missed. Right now we don't have anyone to replace either unless you consider KS a replacement for Sabety. KS is a virtual unknown as far as I'm concerned and maybe the coaching staff knows what upside we have with him.

Hofstra says:" If we don't stink, but we aren't good to win a championship in our league, what is the point of competing? Shouldn't we expect more here? Maybe lets leave the conference? We have behttp://www.flyingdutchmenfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1591en battling mediocrity for 18 years here now.

I don't know what to say about these comments we have been battling to win a championship here does that equate to mediocrity in your opinion? If you don't win in this conference after 18 years should we look to another conference that maybe we don't win. Where are the guarantees that we should be hoping for. We have been really competitive in this conference and should stay the course because we're going to win this thing if we persevere. What is the point of competing according to you?? This is as crazy as my post about getting Kevin Ollie which was meant to be facetious. I really don't know where you are going with that comment. We're all angry as hell that we lost to UNCW and we damn well should be. We want coaching and or coaching philosophy changes and we damn well should but changing conferences. We're getting very desperate and I like the idea of putting it on the table but it's always the case of the grass being greener IMO!

[Hofstra]

I understand we don't have anyone to replace these players, but I meant they will not be so hard to replace. They were nice kids I am sure, but not world beaters. We can replace them with a body. Angus I really liked to start the season, but his injury curtailed his career, it stunk. Years to come, no one will mention him as a player we miss though, same with Hunter. At this minute though, I have ZERO idea who will replace him. Have we recruited a single 4/5 for next year? If we don't replace them at all, and bring in no big men, than obviously they will be missed, but I would assume we bring in a body next year to compete. I don't know much about Schutte, I hope he is decent. I don't have high expectations.

We haven't won in 17 years I think, I said 18, but I think its 17, who knows. Yea, we've played in 2 conference championships, in that span, so we will wait another 8 years at this pace. I obviously don't mean I want to stop competing, maybe you took that the wrong way. TBH, I would like to change conferences. The CAA hasn't work out for us, and I am almost certain it won't work out for us in the future. It's a great league, but I don't think we have the guts to win it. There is a ton of travel in this league, and it takes a toll on the players towards the end of the season. How many teams take a damn train to their conference tournament because they didn't have the wherewith all to schedule a flight out a day earlier?? BONKERS. If we are going to use money as an excuse, I get that. Lets move to a conference that will have us, with less travel constraints.

If you don't think we have been battling mediocrity for years, than I am selling you a bridge here. My personal opinion, I would rather win the conference tournament more often that every 20 years and get a 16 seed, than never win it, and hope for a 13 seed. We can't say that other conferences are drawing 16 seeds, when we haven't drawn any single seed since Speedy and Jay.

[Polito]

Hofstra, I missed your post until triplec quoted it, but love it. Welcome to my world where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't around here. You and I have had times of agreement and disagreement, but no question you have the nads to speak the truth. You have to EARN the benefit of the doubt and the sunshine pumping, and HU hasn't.

I was literally coming here to post the exact same thing about when exactly am I "allowed" to expect things from this program??? Is HU supposed to have 5 starters on the all-conf team before we will all say they have enough talent? I mean c'mon.

As far as mediocrity, I'd say upper middle tier. HU has had some strong years and weak ones, so I would say it has evened out to basically average, so you're not far off IMO. JM's record here is average (fact) - some folks just aren't looking at things objectively.

I got destroyed on here for stating that Rok is a terrible defender. I love the kid, uber glad he came here, but this isn't really debatable, proof is in the pudding. The D side (being a stopper and shot blocker) just wasn't his strength.

As far as conf affiliation, there's a lot of misguided desire here. The goal for a mid is to go dancing. I couldn't care less about seeding when HU NEVER gets there.

What will happen when HU finally makes it, gets a 13, bad luck of a terrible matchup, and gets bounced by 20? Then has to wait another 2-3 decades before returning? Will you all be fired up because HU got 'mad respect' of a 13? LOL, stop.

This quality of ball and higher ranked recruits is overstated as well. JM struggles to beat his former opponents here, and Wags already noted barely squeaking by a bad Army team. Contradicting ourselves guys. I do wonder about the quality of coaching though, that could probably be an interesting discussion.

Look, it's all mid major hoops guys - no one here is Kentucky, so I think we are splitting hairs between CofC and Bucknell. Being in the CAA is not the draw some think. JWF himself said he would've gone to Manhattan with Buie if that's what he wanted - and Buie did NOT come to HU because of the CAA, the staff landed them. This conf means very little up here guys.

I do agree it isn't happening so the discussion is pretty moot, but if we are going to make or not make the case, let's make it accurate. Conf rank means jack squat. Geo fit is MUCH more important because it saves money, creates better rivalries, and allows more fan participation.

Spending a grand plus over 3-4 days during the week when you have a family and a schedule that would make most heads spin is just not in the cards for the vast majority of fans. Great city, but I'd say that kind of trip that is unrealistic for 98% of the conf population outside of a 6 hour radius. And the attendance was awful.

Bottom line to me is we all want better, we have the right to, and it's high time to expect it.

[HUSID74]

I understand we don't have anyone to replace these players, but I meant they will not be so hard to replace. They were nice kids I am sure, but not world beaters. We can replace them with a body. Angus I really liked to start the season, but his injury curtailed his career, it stunk. Years to come, no one will mention him as a player we miss though, same with Hunter. At this minute though, I have ZERO idea who will replace him. Have we recruited a single 4/5 for next year? If we don't replace them at all, and bring in no big men, than obviously they will be missed, but I would assume we bring in a body next year to compete. I don't know much about Schutte, I hope he is decent. I don't have high expectations.

We haven't won in 17 years I think, I said 18, but I think its 17, who knows. Yea, we've played in 2 conference championships, in that span, so we will wait another 8 years at this pace. I obviously don't mean I want to stop competing, maybe you took that the wrong way. TBH, I would like to change conferences. The CAA hasn't work out for us, and I am almost certain it won't work out for us in the future. It's a great league, but I don't think we have the guts to win it. There is a ton of travel in this league, and it takes a toll on the players towards the end of the season. How many teams take a damn train to their conference tournament because they didn't have the wherewith all to schedule a flight out a day earlier?? BONKERS. If we are going to use money as an excuse, I get that. Lets move to a conference that will have us, with less travel constraints.

If you don't think we have been battling mediocrity for years, than I am selling you a bridge here. My personal opinion, I would rather win the conference tournament more often that every 20 years and get a 16 seed, than never win it, and hope for a 13 seed. We can't say that other conferences are drawing 16 seeds, when we haven't drawn any single seed since Speedy and Jay.

You don't have that choice...

[joeg1]

The choice many have made however, is to stop coming to the games.

[Wags]

If you don't think we have been battling mediocrity for years, than I am selling you a bridge here. My personal opinion, I would rather win the conference tournament more often that every 20 years and get a 16 seed, than never win it, and hope for a 13 seed. We can't say that other conferences are drawing 16 seeds, when we haven't drawn any single seed since Speedy and Jay.

Gotta stop living in the past. Can't keep thinking because Hofstra made its last two NCAATs only because it was in the AE, it would keep doing the same in an easier conference. There's simply no guarantee of that. Hofstra accomplished that because it was led by an eventual NBA first-round draft pick. Here's a secret: If Hofstra had some first-round NBA draft picks since then, they likely would've already gone dancing out of the CAA.

It took Stony Brook a while to host a championship game, then three tries before finally winning one at home, after losing in the AE title game on the road, too. Vermont just lost one at home this year. The MAAC hasn't had the 1 seed win its conference title in eight years. Nothing is guaranteed, no matter what conference you're in if you don't play championship level basketball.

Yet there's still this ridiculous hearkening back to the AE days, blaming the CAA for Hofstra's failure to dance. Forget the CAA. Blame HOFSTRA. The opportunities have been there for the taking and they will continue to be. But conference champions don't leave things to chance. They sure up weaknesses. Every time Hofstra has competed pretty well in the CAA, but come up a little short, it's because they have failed to sure up those weaknesses. That's not the fault of the conference they play in. Like I've said before, you can't be afraid to look in the mirror. It's the only way you get good enough to accomplish what you want.

Forget the conference already. It's an old tired argument and its not changing anyway. So what's the point in continuing that debate for the past 8-10 years?

HU needs to RAISE ITS GAME to meet the championship standards of the conference its already in. PERIOD. When that happens, they'll go dancing.

[The Shadow]

To Wags, I agree 100%. Do not blame any outside sources of your problems. If you want to win a conference championship, get better players, get a better game plan. get tougher, make more shots, etc. The fans should not expect a new conference (even though, I would be in favor of it) because the likely answer is that it will not happen. There are too many reasons why HU is not a choice for an invitation to a different conference. You have to find ways to improve. Since HU has been in the CAA, the teams that have made the NCAAT in various sports (softball, men's soccer, etc.) have won tournament games. NCAAT HU teams rarely did this in the AE days.

[Wags]

Since HU has been in the CAA, the teams that have made the NCAAT in various sports (softball, men's soccer, etc.) have won tournament games. NCAAT HU teams rarely did this in the AE days.

A point on this topic which has not been raised enough.

Raises the question: why have other HU teams not allowed the move to the CAA to hinder their abilities to accomplish some of their goals? Would be nice to see men's hoops follow suit and do what it needs to do to accomplish the same as its fellow HU student-athletes. Then we wouldn't have to blame the CAA for just one sport anymore.

[Hofstra]

If no one voiced their opinions we would have a very boring message board. I don't think a move to another conference is out of the realm of possibility in the coming years. If we all just accepted the fact that the CAA was fine, we could stay here forever. For me, I would like to see some change. The CAA's was a great conference a few years ago, it was fun. Even when we weren't winning, we had rivalries, and the top teams were legit top teams in the country during March. Now the top teams in the CAA's have no shot to do what Mason or VCU did. Its just not as fun of a league anymore, especially for us Hofstra fans. I would rather be in a conference that we had rivals with.

[Wags]

If no one voiced their opinions we would have a very boring message board. I don't think a move to another conference is out of the realm of possibility in the coming years. If we all just accepted the fact that the CAA was fine, we could stay here forever. For me, I would like to see some change. The CAA's was a great conference a few years ago, it was fun. Even when we weren't winning, we had rivalries, and the top teams were legit top teams in the country during March. Now the top teams in the CAA's have no shot to do what Mason or VCU did. Its just not as fun of a league anymore, especially for us Hofstra fans. I would rather be in a conference that we had rivals with.

Who's saying anyone shouldn't voice their opinions? Of course, that's what this board is for.

I hear you on the league being different today than what it was when we had some great games with ODU and Mason, etc., so why not play elsewhere in a league that might be more fun again? I get that, but we already play some of those teams OOC, it's really not any more fun and we don't draw any better.

If Hofstra were competing in the CAA the way Fordham is in the A10, I'd understand a league change even more. But at this point, Hofstra isn't going up, so the only move would be to go down. And Hofstra isn't in the CAA what Fordham is in the A10. Hofstra contends in the CAA. For me, that in itself is fun. More fun that rivalries. I saw the shared excitement and enthusiasm on this board after closing the regular season on 4-game winning streak about going to Charleston and cutting down the nets. I saw Politio's big thank you to the program for being a CAA contender and not being like a lot of other programs that are in far worse shape. Then ONE loss, albeit a CAA tourney loss as a favorite, changes that opinion SO drastically. The extremes are nuts. Some here are the very definition of fickle fans. Go back and see what was posted before that one loss to UNCW and afterwards by the same people. Stark difference.

I'm not about to change that drastically, because I see the big picture. I see what other programs that succeed do over time. They take steps. It's not like Hofstra hasn't taken its steps. More POYs than anyone in the CAA since joining the CAA, with 5 coming in the past 12 years. Twice coming within an eyelash of either getting an at-large or an auto bid, and this year, contending with a team that can come back next year and take the next step. That's when you should want to see it through. To me, that's fun. Bailing and going elsewhere for some unknown situation which may or may very well not be fun at all, and which could in the long run send the program to lower depths, doesn't sound like fun. So have your opinion. You're entitled. But count me out.

[Polito]

Ok Wags, now I'm going to take great exception to the 'fickle fan' comment because I know I am part of the group you are referencing lol. That's total BS bud.

Because I am not satisfied and I believe more should be accomplished and I am not complacent with this staff that makes me fickle? Because I thank them for the job of turning this program around, but also see clearly they have not been able to achieve the next step and I am not good with that, THAT makes me fickle??

Get the hell outta here with that nonsense. What that makes me is someone who sees the REAL big picture. I love the kudos you give yourself as if only you see how things really are The big picture is elevating the program and making the dance. I'm not going to sit here like a blind mouse ignoring the reality and keep saying next yr next yr next yr next yr next yr.

Again, there is a big difference between righting the ship, and taking the next step. It is perfectly ok and feasible to appreciate the turnaround and be disappointed in the next step results.

I swear the 'attitude' police are worse than anything else around here. The attitudes are fine - it's the over leniency and acceptance of mere program maintenance that are the problem. I'm not good with the same thing every year. I want PROGRESS, and this program has stalled in that department.

What progress has been made since the champ game debacle? I see 2 straight years of getting bounced in game 1 of the CAAT against rookie coaches with inferior talent. And that's WITH a POY. That is not progress.

But to be a 'real fan' I have to be cool with that? Heaven forbid anyone questions/doubts the coaches, or notes the yearly choking, and dares to actually expect more. Because you are ok with this for umpteen years that makes you a 'better fan??

How long exactly do you think it takes to succeed? This is one of my favorite things to debunk. Here are some fun facts to blow up the time theory:
-Keatts was CAA COY in year 1, lead them to their first conference championship in *9* years, and first winning season in *7*. Hit the NCAAT in year *2*.
- Grant hit the NIT in year 3 and the NCAAT in year 4. That is progression. And both took over down programs.

See the truth is it doesn't take that long when things are done right, when expectations are set and met via whatever means necessary (within the rules of course). It only takes ridiculous amounts of time if nothing ever changes, if nothing is ever addressed, and the standards are low or treated too casually by the governing body. I do not accept what we've seen, and neither should anyone else who pays money to support it. And I am not sorry about my expectations for progression and success, nor am I changing them.

My friend, passion and standards are not fickle, and with all due respect, you are not the fan above all fans.

[joeg1]

There's no cheerng in the press box, right?

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[Hofstra]

We keep mentioning the fact that we have had 5 POY in 12 years. With all due respect, that should mean we should we winning more here. We have 5 of the best players in the league the past 12 years, and we haven't won a single conference tournament. Heck, we had the player of the year this year, and we didn't even win a single conference tournament game.

Wags, you love to tout yourself as the one who spoke all about defensive lapses this year, and the writing was on the wall. Check my post history, I never once had faith in this team after that William and Mary loss on the road in December. I was happy when they won games, but never once did I think they could compete for a title. I was called a fake fan then, now I am being called fickle.

[triplec2195]

Ok Wags, now I'm going to take great exception to the 'fickle fan' comment because I know I am part of the group you are referencing lol. That's total BS bud.

Because I am not satisfied and I believe more should be accomplished and I am not complacent with this staff that makes me fickle? Because I thank them for the job of turning this program around, but also see clearly they have not been able to achieve the next step and I am not good with that, THAT makes me fickle??

Get the hell outta here with that nonsense. What that makes me is someone who sees the REAL big picture. I love the kudos you give yourself as if only you see how things really are The big picture is elevating the program and making the dance. I'm not going to sit here like a blind mouse ignoring the reality and keep saying next yr next yr next yr next yr next yr.

Again, there is a big difference between righting the ship, and taking the next step. It is perfectly ok and feasible to appreciate the turnaround and be disappointed in the next step results.

I swear the 'attitude' police are worse than anything else around here. The attitudes are fine - it's the over leniency and acceptance of mere program maintenance that are the problem. I'm not good with the same thing every year. I want PROGRESS, and this program has stalled in that department.

What progress has been made since the champ game debacle? I see 2 straight years of getting bounced in game 1 of the CAAT against rookie coaches with inferior talent. And that's WITH a POY. That is not progress.

But to be a 'real fan' I have to be cool with that? Heaven forbid anyone questions/doubts the coaches, or notes the yearly choking, and dares to actually expect more. Because you are ok with this for umpteen years that makes you a 'better fan??

How long exactly do you think it takes to succeed? This is one of my favorite things to debunk. Here are some fun facts to blow up the time theory:
-Keatts was CAA COY in year 1, lead them to their first conference championship in *9* years, and first winning season in *7*. Hit the NCAAT in year *2*.
- Grant hit the NIT in year 3 and the NCAAT in year 4. That is progression. And both took over down programs.

See the truth is it doesn't take that long when things are done right, when expectations are set and met via whatever means necessary (within the rules of course). It only takes ridiculous amounts of time if nothing ever changes, if nothing is ever addressed, and the standards are low or treated too casually by the governing body. I do not accept what we've seen, and neither should anyone else who pays money to support it. And I am not sorry about my expectations for progression and success, nor am I changing them.

My friend, passion and standards are not fickle, and with all due respect, you are not the fan above all fans.

Good post here Polito and the fickle fan comment Wags really doesn't ring true. I don't care what sport you're a fan of whether it be college or pro when your team loses and is favored to win if you're a passionate fan you're going to be disgusted and express your displeasure. You are going to look at the cause(s) of why your team lost and want to change so it doesn't repeat itself . This is such a no brainer and shouldn't be classified as being fickle but more about being passionate about your team maybe fanatical. Polito you constantly throw the word MONEY in the mix when you talk about fans not accepting the status quo here. I can appreciate that you have put your money where your mouth is but don't you think people that haven't invested lots of money in this program have every right to be disgruntled and disappointed?? We're all passionate and caring fans hungry for a major winner here otherwise would we follow this team go to the games and post here. Everyone here to differing degrees spends a part of his life here voicing their opinion(s).

Wags I like your comment about addressing and taking care of the weaknesses a very common sense statement but will we see it thru to fruition. Your comment however about having a first round NBA player is off the mark and that's not the reason we haven't gone dancing in this conference. We haven't gone dancing depending on where you want to place the blame can be any number of things from maybe inept coaching(for some), not good enough recruiting, bad luck, hostile venues off shooting nights etc. etc. etc. I'd like to know what team in this league has won the championship here and gone dancing because they have had a first round draft pick on their roster? Come on we know this is a team sport did all of our P/O/Y get us to the promised land no because we were a player or two short of getting us over the top more then likely. I'm not trying to be argumentative here because I really like the majority of what I'm reading here even though the views are not concurring but good arguments have been made to support these views!!

[Wags]

We keep mentioning the fact that we have had 5 POY in 12 years. With all due respect, that should mean we should we winning more here.

Basketball is a team sport.

Absolutely great to have 5 POYs in 12 years and even some other First, Second, Third or Rookie Team selections.

A failure to neglect some other areas.

[Wags]

Wags I like your comment about addressing and taking care of the weaknesses a very common sense statement but will we see it thru to fruition. Your comment however about having a first round NBA player is off the mark and that's not the reason we haven't gone dancing in this conference. We haven't gone dancing depending on where you want to place the blame can be any number of things from maybe inept coaching(for some), not good enough recruiting, bad luck, hostile venues off shooting nights etc. etc. etc. I'd like to know what team in this league has won the championship here and gone dancing because they have had a first round draft pick on their roster?

Completely misread and misrepresented what I was saying on this, so I will clarify.

I did not in any way say you need an NBA first-round pick to go dancing in the CAA. I said that was the reason Hofstra went dancing with Speedy (and then built off of that success to go dancing again, the following year). That comment was made in reference to others' claims that HU needs to move down again to win. So what I was saying was just the opposite, that you DON'T need that in the CAA. You're already competing and just need to take the last step. But you don't need to move down in order to win a conference title.