MBB Game 14 Charleston, Jan 4 (Thu), 7 PM

[triplec2195]

While COC played 11 players 10 of them were on the scoreboard we played 9 and only 5 scored with Washington getting 2 on a breakaway dunk. Our bench play was sad and I think Farmer was in over his head in this game IMO.

[Wags]

More than the 20-4 Charleston finish (over the last 7 minutes), Speedy pointed to the 16-4 Charleston start tonight (over the first 4 minutes).

Makes sense for the focus to be there since Hofstra led for only 8:25 in a game in which they outscored Charleston 53-37 over a roughly 29-minute period in between the bad start and bad finish.

The staff was immediately trying to come up with answers after the game - Speedy and a player or a couple of players normally head right to the postgame afterwards. Tonight, they did something I had never seen before, huddling up for a while, talking outside the postgame room before anyone was allowed in there. I take that as a good thing, to take the time to talk about the game as a staff right after it ended, while it's still very fresh in their minds. This staff cares a lot. I would expect to see a more focused and better start on Saturday.

[Wags]

While COC played 11 players 10 of them were on the scoreboard we played 9 and only 5 scored with Washington getting 2 on a breakaway dunk. Our bench play was sad and I think Farmer was in over his head in this game IMO.

56 of 62 shots went to Thomas, Dubar, and Carlos, who shot a combined 37.5% (21/56).

Aside from that it was Washington's lone shot because of his steal and fast break dunk, two shots each for Fritz and Farmer, and one shot for Plotnikov. That was it. And nearly half the shots from 3, where they shot 20% (6/30) while shooting 53% (17/32) from 2.

The majority of shots should always go to those three but not to that extent. Basically on one else getting shots tonight, it's almost like playing 3 on 5 offensively. You have to get others involved to keep a team honest in the same way that a prolific football passing attack need at least some sort of running game to set up the pass. Otherwise, in either sport, you're making it too easy for the opposition to defend.

Need to get others involved especially when the Key 3 aren't hitting and need to go with what works - if it's a night the 3s aren't falling, stop taking them until you shoot yourself out of the game. Rather, stick with what's working, and they were pretty efficient from 2. When you don't do that, it also puts way too much pressure on the three who are the only ones really taking the shots. So even for their own sake, involve others.

[mikey75]

No contribution from the bench. Farmer looks lost. Nothing down low. Could be a long season.

[Wags]

No contribution from the bench. Farmer looks lost. Nothing down low. Could be a long season.

They have someone in Robinson who can play but he only got four minutes and no shots tonight.

They have someone in Plonikov who is now healthy again and who showed last year that he can be a good spark, but they got him one shot in 13 minutes tonight.

And they have Barrouk, who after going 3/4 from 3 against Princeton was "going to be a big part of what we do this year" but who's been given very few minutes and only three shots since going 1/5 against Buffalo, including no shots since St. Louis.

[triplec2195]

If you listen to Speedy's post presser his reason for us losing this game was how we came out cold and fell behind by 10 really 12 and in our first few offensive sets it was give the ball to Thomas and let him take tough three's. However when there was around 5 minutes left in this game I believe we had the lead so we came all the way back from that early deficit and now IMO were in the driver's seat with not only the lead but were in the bonus and had been for a few minutes at that point. We again went back to spreading the floor(good thing) but continued to take those tough shots that got us in the hole to begin with. I just don't understand this strategy at this point in the game instead of taking advantage of the foul situation that they were in. Nobody was driving to the basket??

[HUSID80]

Agree with all of the above comments...there is a disturbing trend emerging with this team this year...we usually start VERY poorly then play well to get on top or close and then revert back to poor play...very disappointed in the lack of energy we came out with and the team's shot selction, mostly due to Thomas who appears to have NO CONSCIENCE...he shot 9-26 overall and 3-15 from three!!!!
Why didn't Speedy pull him and give KiJan some time (he only played 4 minutes)!
Delaware now becomes a must win for us.

[Wags]

very disappointed in the lack of energy we came out with and the team's shot selction, mostly due to Thomas who appears to have NO CONSCIENCE...he shot 9-26 overall and 3-15 from three!!!!

So, right from the very first game against St. Joseph's (LI), I raised this. It was great that Thomas shot very well that game but I was concerned that when we got to an opponent like Charleston that what happened in that St. Joseph's game was going to be fool's gold. In that game, Thomas was 1/1 from 2 and 8/13 from 3. I said then - great that he shot well, but it's almost ALL from 3. But no one noticed because he had a good game and they won without breaking a sweat.

But here's the thing - we then heard that the 4/16 game against Princeton "wasn't a typical Tyler Thomas game" and it wasn't, however there have been too many other "atypical Tyler Thomas games" since. He has shot 41% or worse in HALF of HU's 14 games this season:

4/16, 8/22, 3/12, 10/25, 7/17, 4/20, and 9/26.

I think it may be time for them to consider Dubar as the primary option and take some pressure off of Thomas. I'm guilty, I said in the preseason that Thomas was primed and ready to be that option. But maybe he's better suited to be a 1A or a 2 like he normally was for Estrada (even though last year, later in the year, including in the NIT win at Rutgers, he was really #1 and Estrada became #2).

But off of what we've seen so far this year, he's at 41.3 FG% and 1.17 PPS (310 pts on 264 FGM). In contrast, Dubar is at a considerably more efficient and consistent 53.0 FG% and 1.40 PPS. You can't have your primary scoring option be efficient only half the time. Maybe Thomas is feeling the pressure to slide into that #1 role from being #2 last year and I don't know if Dubar can handle being the #1 guy any better but based on the efficiency we've seen from each so far this season, it's seems it should be switched and maybe Thomas can flourish more as a #1A or #2 like he did last year. Take last night - they both scored about the same (Thomas 21 pts, Dubar 20 pts) but with the help of Dubar getting to the line six times and making four, and with Thomas not getting to the line a single time while settling for 12 missed 3s on 15 3-pt attempts, Dubar scored about the same on nine fewer shots (17 vs. Thomas' 26). Dubar didn't shoot great either last night, a medicore-at-best 7/17, but if he gets the 26 FGA as the primary option and Thomas gets the 17 as the second option, are they a lot closer to pulling that game out late instead of letting it slip away? I don't know, but maybe.

Try it out based on the data and results we've seen. If it doesn't work, could always switch back to Thomas as the #1 and Dubar as 1A or 2. And regardless, get others going -- like Plotnikov, Robinson, maybe Barrouk, and Fritz (who is shooting 63.8% from the floor this season) -- to take some of the pressure off of Thomas, Dubar, and Carlos. AND move the ball and move people. Often way too much dribbling and not enough ball movement and cutting. No matter how fast you dribble, it's never faster than passing, which makes opposing defenses work harder. And when it's there, drive into the paint to force collapsing, and kick to open wing shooters or drive and get to get buckets or to get the FT line. But 6/30 from 3 (with the primary option taking half of those and missing all but three of them) with three guys taking 56 of the 62 total shots won't cut it.

[cactus]

Agree with all of the above comments...there is a disturbing trend emerging with this team this year...we usually start VERY poorly then play well to get on top or close and then revert back to poor play...very disappointed in the lack of energy we came out with and the team's shot selction, mostly due to Thomas who appears to have NO CONSCIENCE...he shot 9-26 overall and 3-15 from three!!!!
Why didn't Speedy pull him and give KiJan some time (he only played 4 minutes)!
Delaware now becomes a must win for us.

Team was visibly gassed back end of 2nd half, from having to come all the way back from the poor start. Why didn't Speedy use the bench more? OK robinson had 2 quick turnovers, so take him out. but to bench him the rest of the way? 5 minutes for Sunday? I don't really get it.

[Wags]

Agree with all of the above comments...there is a disturbing trend emerging with this team this year...we usually start VERY poorly then play well to get on top or close and then revert back to poor play...very disappointed in the lack of energy we came out with and the team's shot selction, mostly due to Thomas who appears to have NO CONSCIENCE...he shot 9-26 overall and 3-15 from three!!!!
Why didn't Speedy pull him and give KiJan some time (he only played 4 minutes)!
Delaware now becomes a must win for us.

Team was visibly gassed back end of 2nd half, from having to come all the way back from the poor start. Why didn't Speedy use the bench more? OK robinson had 2 quick turnovers, so take him out. but to bench him the rest of the way? 5 minutes for Sunday? I don't really get it.

That's the thing with the slow starts and that's why in the presser, Speedy rightfully focused on Charleston's 16-4 start rather than on Charleston's 20-4 finish after Hofstra led by four. You expend so much energy to make up for a bad start that it's difficult to maintain playing well to close out the game.

[cactus]

very disappointed in the lack of energy we came out with and the team's shot selction, mostly due to Thomas who appears to have NO CONSCIENCE...he shot 9-26 overall and 3-15 from three!!!!

So, right from the very first game against St. Joseph's (LI), I raised this. It was great that Thomas shot very well that game but I was concerned that when we got to an opponent like Charleston that what happened in that St. Joseph's game was going to be fool's gold. In that game, Thomas was 1/1 from 2 and 8/13 from 3. I said then - great that he shot well, but it's almost ALL from 3. But no one noticed because he had a good game and they won without breaking a sweat.

But here's the thing - we then heard that the 4/16 game against Princeton "wasn't a typical Tyler Thomas game" and it wasn't, however there have been too many other "atypical Tyler Thomas games" since. He has shot 41% or worse in HALF of HU's 14 games this season:

4/16, 8/22, 3/12, 10/25, 7/17, 4/20, and 9/26.

I think it may be time for them to consider Dubar as the primary option and take some pressure off of Thomas. I'm guilty, I said in the preseason that Thomas was primed and ready to be that option. But maybe he's better suited to be a 1A or a 2 like he normally was for Estrada (even though last year, later in the year, including in the NIT win at Rutgers, he was really #1 and Estrada became #2).

But off of what we've seen so far this year, he's at 41.3 FG% and 1.17 PPS (310 pts on 264 FGM). In contrast, Dubar is at a considerably more efficient and consistent 53.0 FG% and 1.40 PPS. You can't have your primary scoring option be efficient only half the time. Maybe Thomas is feeling the pressure to slide into that #1 role from being #2 last year and I don't know if Dubar can handle being the #1 guy any better but based on the efficiency we've seen from each so far this season, it's seems it should be switched and maybe Thomas can flourish more as a #1A or #2 like he did last year. Take last night - they both scored about the same (Thomas 21 pts, Dubar 20 pts) but with the help of Dubar getting to the line six times and making four, and with Thomas not getting to the line a single time while settling for 12 missed 3s on 15 3-pt attempts, Dubar scored about the same on nine fewer shots (17 vs. Thomas' 26). Dubar didn't shoot great either last night, a medicore-at-best 7/17, but if he gets the 26 FGA as the primary option and Thomas gets the 17 as the second option, are they a lot closer to pulling that game out late instead of letting it slip away? I don't know, but maybe.

Try it out based on the data and results we've seen. If it doesn't work, could always switch back to Thomas as the #1 and Dubar as 1A or 2. And regardless, get others going -- like Plotnikov, Robinson, maybe Barrouk, and Fritz (who is shooting 63.8% from the floor this season) -- to take some of the pressure off of Thomas, Dubar, and Carlos. AND move the ball and move people. Often way too much dribbling and not enough ball movement and cutting. No matter how fast you dribble, it's never faster than passing, which makes opposing defenses work harder. And when it's there, drive into the paint to force collapsing, and kick to open wing shooters or drive and get to get buckets or to get the FT line. But 6/30 from 3 (with the primary option taking half of those and missing all but three of them) with three guys taking 56 of the 62 total shots won't cut it.

thomas is way more efficient as the 2nd option, when the defense isn't keyed in on him. don't think dubar can be the #1 guy, and defenses are going to gameplan to stop thomas first regardless. they have two #2's and no #1, and no one else who can score in double digits consistently (although robinson has potential to be a #1 guy). not a recipe for success. someone else has to step up so thomas isn't forcing so many shots, but who? he did that at times last year earlier in the season too, but learned to play with estrada and take his shots within the offense - squared up, in rhythm, limit the 28 foot heaves, etc... the difference last year was that even though you might have been considered thomas the #1 in some games, defenses game planned for estrada - and rutgers didn't treat thomas as estrada when he fouled out. this year with teams game planning for thomas he's going the opposite direction - forcing more off-balance shots as the season wears on.

[triplec2195]

Team used to playing a lot of minutes just like in Michalich days with few subs and Joe would never admit they had run out of gas but the pace was frantic in this game and Tyler is getting used to playing all 40 minutes but these kids are only human so it seems like a factor. Bench didn't look good in this game and I think Speedy might not have used the bench but with all their subs they can wear you out with fresh bodies constantly coming off their bench.

As far as all the shots Tyler was taking I'm sure Speedy doesn't bark at him all that much with his shot selections and really he's given the green light to keep shooting just like with Estrada and JWF. He's scoring more then 25% of the points every game what would we have without his scoring. This team needs that 4th scorer to put up some points and all of a sudden we're getting no O output from Washington very disappointing. Robinson is a good looking freshman but he might have even felt overwhelmed in this game. A lot of pressure for inexperienced players and it showed especially Farmer. Plotnikov looked out of sorts in this game as well.

[The Shadow]

It was difficult for me to see, but did anyone notice if Barrouk, Parnell, Tomasco, or Wilmoth was on the HU bench versus Charleston? I noticed one player in grey warm-ups, but I could not tell who he was. Has anyone have any knowledge if some of these players are ill, or have left the program? Thanks in advance.

[Jordan]

Anyone else find it odd that the College of Charleston assistant coach was yelling during our free throws?

"Octagon! Octagon! Octagon!"

Never seen that before. Pretty rude imo. It's not like it changed the outcome of the game, we were ice cold end of that second half, but still, let's see some class COC.

[Wags]

thomas is way more efficient as the 2nd option, when the defense isn't keyed in on him. don't think dubar can be the #1 guy, and defenses are going to gameplan to stop thomas first regardless. they have two #2's and no #1, and no one else who can score in double digits consistently (although robinson has potential to be a #1 guy). not a recipe for success. someone else has to step up so thomas isn't forcing so many shots, but who? he did that at times last year earlier in the season too, but learned to play with estrada and take his shots within the offense - squared up, in rhythm, limit the 28 foot heaves, etc... the difference last year was that even though you might have been considered thomas the #1 in some games, defenses game planned for estrada - and rutgers didn't treat thomas as estrada when he fouled out. this year with teams game planning for thomas he's going the opposite direction - forcing more off-balance shots as the season wears on.

Estrada in 2021-22: 1.23 PPS (1.08 PPS without FT)
Estrada in 2023-23: 1.25 PPS (1.10 PPS without FT)
Thomas in 2023-24: 1.17 PPS (1.05 PPS without FT)
Dubar in 2023-24: 1.40 PPS (1.25 PPS without FT)

Are we certain Dubar can't be a #1 option this year?

At the very least if it is two #2s, play accordingly - even out the shot attempts for Thomas and Dubar and get others involved more because Thomas shooting 41% this year and getting the bulk of the shots isn't working unless he either becomes more efficient or some of those shots are given to Dubar or others who are more efficient.

They also miss Estrada defensively. He could be very disruptive with steals and helping the whole unit with his defense and communication.

[Wags]

Team used to playing a lot of minutes just like in Michalich days with few subs and Joe would never admit they had run out of gas but the pace was frantic in this game and Tyler is getting used to playing all 40 minutes but these kids are only human so it seems like a factor. Bench didn't look good in this game and I think Speedy might not have used the bench but with all their subs they can wear you out with fresh bodies constantly coming off their bench.

This is overrated. They won their only CAA tourney title with virtually no bench at all under the very coach you reference above. It's always helpful and preferable to have a good bench but it's not a requirement to win if your starters play the right ways at each end of the floor.

As far as all the shots Tyler was taking I'm sure Speedy doesn't bark at him all that much with his shot selections and really he's given the green light to keep shooting just like with Estrada and JWF. He's scoring more then 25% of the points every game what would we have without his scoring.

It's about efficiency, not about scoring leaders leading the way only on volume scoring. That 25% (actually 29% this year) isn't in a vacuum. Maybe they would score even more and shoot a higher team FG% with a different approach. Thomas needing 26 shots to score 21 points last night doesn't work, especially when Dubar is scoring 20 points on 17 shots, and when no one else besides those two and Carlos were getting basically any shots. Thomas (41% FG) is scoring those points, half the time (7 of 14 games, 41% or worse this year), on shot volume. Dubar (53% FG) and others may provide even more scoring because of their efficiency. There was no need for Thomas to go 3/15 from 3 when maybe 5-8 of those missed 3s could have gone elsewhere for better shot opportunities (even if those opportunities were still for him, but with better looks inside the arc and off of better movement with and without the ball by everyone).

[HUSID80]

It was difficult for me to see, but did anyone notice if Barrouk, Parnell, Tomasco, or Wilmoth was on the HU bench versus Charleston? I noticed one player in grey warm-ups, but I could not tell who he was. Has anyone have any knowledge if some of these players are ill, or have left the program? Thanks in advance.

Wilmouth was in the gray sweatsuit. I have not seen Tomasco in weeks, not sure about the other guys.

[dutchPride86]

Haven't spotted Tomasco on the bench for at least the last 2 games either.

Might be time for Speedy to shake up the starting lineup... i know hes been struggling but maybe try starting Plotnikov and moving Washington into the 6th man energy guy role. Certainly neither guy is excelling in their current role at the moment, and Farmer might be playing too much already as is.

Also speaking of Wilmoth, I have to believe the coaching staff had big plans for this kid (though I know we'll never know). The team has felt short a player both literally and figuratively all year, his size and alleged skill set could have really filled those holes. Not an excuse for the team to be struggling to this level, but his absence might be a bigger deal than we realize.

[Cards]

It was difficult for me to see, but did anyone notice if Barrouk, Parnell, Tomasco, or Wilmoth was on the HU bench versus Charleston? I noticed one player in grey warm-ups, but I could not tell who he was. Has anyone have any knowledge if some of these players are ill, or have left the program? Thanks in advance.

Wilmouth was in the gray sweatsuit. I have not seen Tomasco in weeks, not sure about the other guys.

Barrouck was there and looked ready to play. Parnell, who I would argue looks like the most athletic guy on the team, was there. As usual, he warmed up and then left his warmup jacket on the entire game. I have to think that Speedy has told Parnell that this would be a good season to red shirt.

[cactus]

This is overrated. They won their only CAA tourney title with virtually no bench at all under the very coach you reference above. It's always helpful and preferable to have a good bench but it's not a requirement to win if your starters play the right ways at each end of the floor.

They also had the best/most talented team and lost in that tourney playing that way at least a few times.