MBB Game 09 @Saint Louis, Dec 9 (Sat), 3 PM EST

[Cards]

Should have won this game - HU was really sloppy at the end. Agree with DP86 - JC has to clean up the turnovers, and we need to get some contribution from the 5 spot.

TT tried to carry us to victory, but its a lot to put on one guy when everyone in the building knows he's the go to guy.
DD had a nice double double. Farmer fouls out playing only 12 minutes.

So how badly is GP injured? he was out again today. Also, at the beginning of November someone said they thought the heard the kid from Butler would be back after Thanksgiving?? Anyone know? Is Parnell red-shirting??

[triplec2195]

Yeah the Tyler Thomas show is not how to win games. Amazing how Griffin fouls out playing 12 minutes probably why he doesn't play more. Sunday needs to graduate to Monday or Tuesday because his game needs help. He doesn't even jump at times to block shots and he's scored on too much. Rebounds one after another that he has his hands on that he can't hold on to. I can't help but like JC running the show especially with 8 assists. As been said need help in the low post but don't count on Wilmoth he hasn't even stepped onto the court and who's to say he will?

[Mark19th]

Wilmoth needs shoulder surgery and will not play this year.


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[Polito]

(Thanks for the scoop)

But for goodness sake... that's VERY frustrating to hear. Certainly wish him a full speedy recover, I'm sure he is disappointed. The yearly trend of guys brought in that can't play is getting old. This team needs help. When are we going to hear about Parnell??? Does Plotnikov have a timeframe???

As far as this game, ugh, like I said I had a feeling - SLU was absolutely desperate - and no, they are not a good team so far this year, been on a huge slide - not sure they are going to be much this year, so this likely stays a meh loss. Good part is it was very close, on the road, and an A10 team.

Right now, HU really doesn't have any truly good wins. They haven't beaten anyone good (and no Iona isn't 'good' this year). That's a concern to me. This team doesn't have "it" yet - I think they could eventually, but right now way too up and down. TT can be #1 but he can't also be 2 and 3. Forcing way too much, but feeling like he has to. Dubar can't disappear for a half if they expect to win. Broken record. Disappointing this still an issue with him his Jr year.

Fritz shows flashes, and then can't stay on the floor. JC drops dimes then turns the ball over too much lately. Team shooting has fallen off a cliff. Barrouk and Farmer after showing some promise have looked ooofff lately. I can live with them for now, but it doesn't help. And Sunday, look he was a project from day 1. I expect very little from him this year. But Fritz good Lord man you gotta stay out of foul trouble, you're a GRAD year guy, sheesh.

Just... so many flaws. It's still early, but it's hard to see this team doing it this year thus far... saving grace is the CAA is a very winnable league.


They better come to play on Tuesday - I of course do not expect a win, but they better represent themselves, this program, and the university right - can't go out there and get embarrassed on the only national TV game they have all year. Especially when the rest of the CAA has done their part and more. So far HU is the laggard.

And right now, this team is so yin and yang I don't know whether to think they'll show out or get blown out...

[Polito]

(PS: The very last play excluded, this is the best inbound play team out there!! Love it! At least something positive in the L)

[Wags]

JC drops dimes then turns the ball over too much lately.

Something to suddenly watch that wasn't a prior concern at all: Carlos has four career games with at least five TOs - three of those are this season; two of those are in the past two games. He has seven career games with at least four TOs; four of those are this season (only nine games in). Hopefully just an aberration in the early going which will regress back to the mean but for now, he doesn't seem to be as careful with the ball as he used to be.

[HUSID80]

Agree with most here. StLouis wanted this game more than us...they were desperate and played REALLY hard. Why does Dubar disappear for large cheunks of the game? I think Carlos was desperate to make things happen, at the end of the game it seemed it was just Carlos and Thomas and StL knew it guarding those two tightly.
Can't believe we outrebounded them...it seemed they got every miss on the offensive glass and turned them into layups or uncontested threes.
We need alot of work!

[triplec2195]

The difference in this game was our failure to guard the three point line. I only watched the first half but they had wide open looks at three's while our shots were mostly contested. They hit 6 more three's then us.

[Wags]

The difference in this game was our failure to guard the three point line. I only watched the first half but they had wide open looks at three's while our shots were mostly contested. They hit 6 more three's then us.

And yet, they had the lead with under a minute left and what put SLU up for good wasn't a 3, but allowing SLU to drive the paint and get a follow slam dunk after a miss.

Part of making 6 fewer 3s was yes, allowing too many, but also at the other end, where HU only went 7/25. About half of those attempts were from Thomas, who only went 3/12 from 3 while going 7/13 from 2. That's way too much of a disproportion in terms of attempting 3s over 2s when the 3s aren't falling and when the 2s were pretty efficient.

Belief is great. Thomas certainly has that in himself (and he should) and Speedy and his staff certainly have that in Thomas with Thomas shooting the 3. That belief is what makes Thomas have his big games from 3 when they win. But recognize when that's not working on a given night and don't over-rely on the 3. When you're only making 1/4 of your 3s, drive more and pull-up from mid-range or get to mid-range spots off the ball, or drive to the hoops and draw fouls (especially since Thomas shoots FTs very well). When he can find that type of balance rather than thinking about continuing to shoot the 3 on an off night because "the next one will go in," he can be unstoppable. He's a good all-around scorer when he allows himself to be. Otherwise, it's going to be inefficient like last night (29 points is great but not on 1.16 points per shot, like last night - that ratio needs to be higher, which it often is when he strikes the right balance between 2s, 3s, and FTA). Part of it is also just today's game in general, at every level. Steph Curry has ruined it for everyone lol.

[EvanJ]

So far HU is the laggard.

We're not the laggard. We lead the CAA in the NET and KenPom, and are second to Delaware in the RPI. We were picked fourth. Other CAA teams could have wins that impress the Mid-Major Poll, but formulas that rank all the teams treat a win over West Virginia the same as a win over a team in a bad conference that is equal to West Virginia if that happens.

We shouldn't be surprised that Carlos's turnovers went up because Estrada left. Carlos is up to seventh in Division I in assists per game, and he retook the CAA lead from Camian Shell, who somehow averages 6.8 assists on a winless North Carolina A&T team.

[Jojogunne]

I know he's had a few TOs, but Carlos is still our best ballhandler.

[Wags]

I know he's had a few TOs, but Carlos is still our best ballhandler.

By far, and nothing should change with that. And the assists are still there, which is great. Just worried about the uncharacteristically high TO rate from him the past two games in a couple of other games this season. I'm guessing it's an aberration but it's concerning until it is because they need him to be the normally sure-handed PG he usually is.

[Wags]

We shouldn't be surprised that Carlos's turnovers went up because Estrada left.

That's fair. Estrada did play the PG role often so more of that is on Carlos now. When he's handling the ball more, the TOs are bound to go up by default. Still, they need him to keep that in check a little more.

[dutchPride86]

For me its not so much Carlos' turnovers going up with more usage, but he's just looked a lot less comfortable vs the press, and then yesterday those last few possessions were really rough.

But most important X-factor for the team so far imo is absolutely keeping Fritz on the court. In our 3 losses, Fritz is averaging 2.6 pts, 1.3 reb (including 2 games with 0), and 1.0 ast in all of 16 min/g, fouling out ALL 3 TIMES. Cumulative that's 15 fouls, 15 pts/reb/ast COMBINED in the 3 losses (He also fouled out of the High Point game that we needed OT for)

Sunday is clearly still a project. So with the unfortunate news on Wilmoth, team is in trouble if they can't keep Fritz out there. Maybe have to try short stints of the zone D we all hate, if it keeps Fritz on the floor longer might be worth it. And when/if German is healthy, maybe go super small with Dubar at the 5 over giving all of Fritz's minutes to Sunday

[triplec2195]

I think at least two of his 5 fouls were calls on moving picks. That's a foul that's easy to rectify. IDK about the other two games.

[triplec2195]

The difference in this game was our failure to guard the three point line. I only watched the first half but they had wide open looks at three's while our shots were mostly contested. They hit 6 more three's then us.

And yet, they had the lead with under a minute left and what put SLU up for good wasn't a 3, but allowing SLU to drive the paint and get a follow slam dunk after a miss.

Part of making 6 fewer 3s was yes, allowing too many, but also at the other end, where HU only went 7/25. About half of those attempts were from Thomas, who only went 3/12 from 3 while going 7/13 from 2. That's way too much of a disproportion in terms of attempting 3s over 2s when the 3s aren't falling and when the 2s were pretty efficient.

Belief is great. Thomas certainly has that in himself (and he should) and Speedy and his staff certainly have that in Thomas with Thomas shooting the 3. That belief is what makes Thomas have his big games from 3 when they win. But recognize when that's not working on a given night and don't over-rely on the 3. When you're only making 1/4 of your 3s, drive more and pull-up from mid-range or get to mid-range spots off the ball, or drive to the hoops and draw fouls (especially since Thomas shoots FTs very well). When he can find that type of balance rather than thinking about continuing to shoot the 3 on an off night because "the next one will go in," he can be unstoppable. He's a good all-around scorer when he allows himself to be. Otherwise, it's going to be inefficient like last night (29 points is great but not on 1.16 points per shot, like last night - that ratio needs to be higher, which it often is when he strikes the right balance between 2s, 3s, and FTA). Part of it is also just today's game in general, at every level. Steph Curry has ruined it for everyone lol.

Just assuming that with a few less three's allowed we could of had some breathing room down the stretch. Good points re Thomas and his mid range game. Ride what's working instead of taking the tougher shot to make.

[HUSID80]

For me its not so much Carlos' turnovers going up with more usage, but he's just looked a lot less comfortable vs the press, and then yesterday those last few possessions were really rough.

But most important X-factor for the team so far imo is absolutely keeping Fritz on the court. In our 3 losses, Fritz is averaging 2.6 pts, 1.3 reb (including 2 games with 0), and 1.0 ast in all of 16 min/g, fouling out ALL 3 TIMES. Cumulative that's 15 fouls, 15 pts/reb/ast COMBINED in the 3 losses (He also fouled out of the High Point game that we needed OT for)

Sunday is clearly still a project. So with the unfortunate news on Wilmoth, team is in trouble if they can't keep Fritz out there. Maybe have to try short stints of the zone D we all hate, if it keeps Fritz on the floor longer might be worth it. And when/if German is healthy, maybe go super small with Dubar at the 5 over giving all of Fritz's minutes to Sunday

Spoke to German last night in Durham...he was hoping to play at StL and Duke but he's being held out probably until this coming weekend

[Cards]

For me its not so much Carlos' turnovers going up with more usage, but he's just looked a lot less comfortable vs the press, and then yesterday those last few possessions were really rough.

But most important X-factor for the team so far imo is absolutely keeping Fritz on the court. In our 3 losses, Fritz is averaging 2.6 pts, 1.3 reb (including 2 games with 0), and 1.0 ast in all of 16 min/g, fouling out ALL 3 TIMES. Cumulative that's 15 fouls, 15 pts/reb/ast COMBINED in the 3 losses (He also fouled out of the High Point game that we needed OT for)

Sunday is clearly still a project. So with the unfortunate news on Wilmoth, team is in trouble if they can't keep Fritz out there. Maybe have to try short stints of the zone D we all hate, if it keeps Fritz on the floor longer might be worth it. And when/if German is healthy, maybe go super small with Dubar at the 5 over giving all of Fritz's minutes to Sunday

Spoke to German last night in Durham...he was hoping to play at StL and Duke but he's being held out probably until this coming weekend

good update HUSID. Thx. Sounds like staff is being a little cautious but comforting that he will be at full strength soon.

[triplec2195]

For me its not so much Carlos' turnovers going up with more usage, but he's just looked a lot less comfortable vs the press, and then yesterday those last few possessions were really rough.

But most important X-factor for the team so far imo is absolutely keeping Fritz on the court. In our 3 losses, Fritz is averaging 2.6 pts, 1.3 reb (including 2 games with 0), and 1.0 ast in all of 16 min/g, fouling out ALL 3 TIMES. Cumulative that's 15 fouls, 15 pts/reb/ast COMBINED in the 3 losses (He also fouled out of the High Point game that we needed OT for)

Sunday is clearly still a project. So with the unfortunate news on Wilmoth, team is in trouble if they can't keep Fritz out there. Maybe have to try short stints of the zone D we all hate, if it keeps Fritz on the floor longer might be worth it. And when/if German is healthy, maybe go super small with Dubar at the 5 over giving all of Fritz's minutes to Sunday

Spoke to German last night in Durham...he was hoping to play at StL and Duke but he's being held out probably until this coming weekend

good update HUSID. Thx. Sounds like staff is being a little cautious but comforting that he will be at full strength soon.

Thank you for the info. HUSID at least we're not being blindsided that he will miss the remainder of the season!

[Polito]

HUSID out there doing the work HU should be doing for their fanbase, thank you sir!!!


You misunderstood me Evan - I'm not talking about rankings, I'm talking about P5 "name" / media attention wins - HU is the laggard thus far in the CAA in that category. Which is not normally the case, as HU has more than held it's own in that category in the recent past. HU so far does not have any truly quality wins, or wins that would be viewed that way - a Pitino-less Iona win included - nice W, but not the same as beating WVU or Villanova for example, regardless of what the rankings say - it's from a perception standpoint. That was more my point.

And true, perhaps we can't be "surprised" by JC's TO's going up simply because he's handling the ball even more, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable. That's his job as the PG - run the O and protect the ball. He has to be able to handle the minutes, that's what's required.

And agree Jojo, I'm a huge JC fan, he is absolutely the best ball handler (although KJ is up and coming) and should no doubt handle the rock the most. But he also needs to cut down on the TO's and learn how to handle a press. Both of those things can be and are true. Love the kid but no excuses - that's what he has to do as a floor general - and as a Jr especially, he has to be able to dish efficiently and break presses. Hopefully, and I'm sure, working on both as we speak...