CAA MBB 2023 Postseason Honors

[Jojogunne]

Starting a thread for wild speculation. We all think our guys deserve to be "All-CAA" on one level or another. Anyone want to propose all-league honors (first team, second team, defensive team and rookies)? I would add another category: All-Transfer Team.

As for Coach of the Year, can there be anyone else other than Speedy?

[EvanJ]

The CAA does not have a statistics page for each team like they used to, so I am not going to give opinions. https://static.caasports.com/custompage ... M#team.ind and equivalent pages for every team and season going back to 2005-2006 were good.

[Flying Dutchmen]

As for Coach of the Year, can there be anyone else other than Speedy?

Pat Kelsey? It's a coin flip.

[Pride97]

Kelsey’s team was ranked 18th in the country. Don’t think you can look past that. Both he and Speedy are deserving.


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[Wags]

Kelsey’s team was ranked 18th in the country. Don’t think you can look past that. Both he and Speedy are deserving.

But this is a conference award. Wouldn't have a problem if Kelsey gets it, but it says even more about the job Speedy did that it was his team that knocked CofC from #18 to out of the AP rankings by beating them on their floor and then to beat out a team like that for the 1 seed. If we're saying Charleston was supposed to be better, then the award should go to Speedy for getting his team to be better in the final standings (with the tiebreaker, especially with how that tie was broken).

[Wags]

The CAA does not have a statistics page for each team like they used to

Is this what you were looking for? See pages 8-13 and 18 (although it's for the whole season; they used to have that overall and CAA play only, which they don't have).
https://caasports.com/documents/2023/2/ ... df?id=5902

[dutchPride86]

Love this topic! Here's my picks:

POY - Estrada
Coach - Kelsey. Speedy deserves it, but Charleston had an all-time season for a CAA school, the conference leadership still leans south, and believe it or not Hofstra was actually picked higher in the preseason poll (2nd to 4th for charleston). i think Kelsey gets it
Newcomer of the year (making up an award to encompass transfers) - Tyler Thomas
Rookie of the year (since Newcomer isnt a real one) - Max Mackinnon (Elon)
Defensive POY - Amari Williams
6th man - Pat Robinson III (Charleston) beats out Warren Williams

1st Team:
G - Estrada
G - Nelson Jr (Del) - he did wind up beating Estrada for scoring title for both season and conf only games in the end
G - Timberlake (Tow)
G/F - Holden (Tow)
F - Amari Williams (Drex)

2nd Team:
G - Thomas (as wonderful as he is, and as much as Speedy has stumped for him to be 1st team, I just can't objectively put him ahead of any of the 1st team guards)
G - Kam Woods (A&T)
G - Dalton Bolon (Charleston) - 3rd team stats but no way someone from Charleston doesnt wind up higher than 3rd team. Wouldn't be surprised if league put him on 1st team
F - Jyare Davis (Del)
F - Policelli (SB) - surprised he landed here for me. But 7th in scoring and 2nd in reb in Conf only games

3rd Team:
G - Telfort (NE)
G - Jordan Nesbitt (Hamp)
F - Trazarien White (UNCW)
F - Thompson (Tow)
F - Brzovic (Charleston)

Hon mention: Stephenson-Moore (SB), Deuce Dean (Hamp), Ryan Larson (Charleston), Halloran (Elon), Marcus Watson (A&T)

All Rookie Team: Mackinnon, Justin Moore (Del), Jack Collins (Monmouth), Duncan Powell (A&T), Mullen (Hamp)

Def Team: Amari Williams, Thompson, Holden, Nelson Jr, Jaylon Scott (Charleston)

All transfer team (had to be active for another school last year): Thomas, Nesbitt, Brozvic, Larson, and Robinson III (Charleston); Harden-Hayes (UNCW), Anders Nelson (W&M)

[triplec2195]

dutchpride so you did your homework here and kudos to you. Some of the categories here will be tough like COY. My pick is Speedy since he won the conference and managed to beat COC AS A RANKED TEAM ON THEIR COURT. We'll see how that plays out. Based on what I've seen either live or on TV I would make Thomas a 1st team player and drop Holden on to the second team. Clearly Thomas has better O stats then Holden and I personally have trouble with Towson having 2 players on the 1st team. I also don't like Policelli on the second team saw him play against us and just thought he was overwhelmed but maybe just the matchup. I would replace him with Telfort who I saw play and think he's a very good player on a bad team. Plays tough D from what I saw. Why not think about D-Stone on the honorable mention list especially his play late in the season. There should be a category also for Best Big Man and that award I would give to Williams. Just some food for though IMO!!

[Polito]

believe it or not Hofstra was actually picked higher in the preseason poll (2nd to 4th for charleston)

Oh I definitely believe it - I know it lol - that's why I harp on this program's success or failure so much. HU has been one of the top teams in the CAA for YEARS, and typically has the top level talent to boot. It's why I expect more.

People on this board treat this program like it's not the top of the CAA, like it's shocking that HU is picked to win, like it shouldn't be expected to be #1 or to dance. This program should absolutely be held to those expectations. For a program that has championship and NCAAT aspirations every year, they should achieve it more often than not. And yes, that's realistic in this mickey mouse league.

They are often a top team with top talent (kudos to the program for that by the way, that's no small feat) - so when you have that, you need to win.
Championships and dancing is what matters in a bottom league like this. Vermont does it. Iona does it. HU can and should too.

As for the awards, I would of course be thrilled with Speedy, his case can be made - beating CofC on their own floor was HUGE. No issue with Kelsey either - what he and his staff have done in year 2 is impressive. As predicted, they are going to be a problem. This has been a big conf year for our guys so far, but HU's OOC left a LOT to be desired, some bad L's. CofC has been pretty consistent throughout, minus a couple of blips in CAA play.

For the players, AE as the easy POY and TT likely 2nd (would love 1st!). I would like to see a Dubar in there on 3rd. Disappointed that Marshall wasn't able to get more shine and be all-rookie, but hopefully he'll make the real teams in the coming years! No one else really 'all-conf worthy' - HU has become pretty balanced outside of AE and TT, not super standouts but a lot of guys that can and do beat you in different ways - a true team which is awesome.

Not a lot of for HU, but frankly I don't care about all that, what matters most is CUTTING NETS. Get that done, and that's all anyone will remember!

[triplec2195]

Nice to see u back Polito putting your two cents in hopefully it's more then a cameo. Of course this conference is weak this year after 4-5 teams you really don't have much seemingly leading to a lot of blowouts with the top echelon teams thumping the bottom feeders if I can put it that way without offending anyone. We finished 12th last year out of 32 conferences so we were far better as a conference last year.

[EvanJ]

Wags, thank you, I know how to find the statistics leaders. For 2005-2006 through 2021-2022 the page for each team let me find all the statistics for every player and quickly go from team to team. The leaders show that Thomas is not among the leaders in rebounds or assists, but they do not show how many he has. I consider all statistics including players' weaknesses. The CAA only statistics are not in the PDF, but they are at https://caasports.com/stats.aspx?path=m ... &conf=true

Responding to dutchPride86 without quoting the whole post:

1. You say the conference leadership leans south. A UNCW fan says the commissioner is from Providence and said D.C. is too far north for the Tournament. I said D.C. is fair. The CAA headquarters are in Richmond, but I do not know if that matters.

2. The awards come from many voters. There is not one or a small group of people deciding the awards and making sure the top teams have players honored. At one point there were four times as many voters as teams, which would be 52 if that is how they do it this season. The PDF with the vote totals used to be available, but they stopped that before this season. I liked seeing how many players got at least one vote for the third team, where the players ranked within the teams, how close the top second team player was to the first team, how close the top third team player was to the second team, and how close the top other player was to the third team.

3. Cameron Holden shoots all three types of shots poorly, but I think voters will rank a guy who contributes rebounds, assists, and steals over Thomas, who is a better shooter who does not do much else. Holden is the only Division I player averaging at least 14 points, 7 rebounds, 4.5 assists, and 1.5 steals.

[Jojogunne]

Please fact check me if you like, but I believe Hofstra was the only CAA team to defeat a Top 25 opponent (Charleston, ranked 18th at the time) this season.

The Cougars fell to 27th when they faced Drexel (and lost) in their next game. Also, Charleston's SOS is about 169 while Hofstra's is about 140. So even though Charleston had lengthy winning streaks before and after their back-to-back CAA losses, they had no significant wins. That's why I say Speedy deserves Coach of the Year over Kesley.

We'll see what the voters think this later this week.

[Wags]

So even though Charleston had lengthy winning streaks before and after their back-to-back CAA losses, they had no significant wins. That's why I say Speedy deserves Coach of the Year over Kesley.

Charleston certainly has wins in volume, in fact not just better than anyone in the CAA, better than anyone in the nation in terms of the sheer number of wins.

But the quality of those wins is no longer what people expect them to be at the time:

Chatanooga 15-16, 7th in the SoCon
Richmond 14-15, tied for 9th in A10
Davidson 14-14, tied for 9th in A10
Colorado State 13-16, 9th in MWC
Virginia Tech 16-14, 12 in ACC
Kent State 23-6, 2nd in MAC
Old Dominion 19-11, 5th in Sun Belt
The Citadel 10-21, 9th in SoCon
Presbyterian 5-26, 10th in Big South
North Greenville, non-D1
Stetson 17-12, 3rd in ASun
Coastal Carolina 11-19, 12th in Sun Belt

Even leading North Carolina in the second half and losing - UNC was #1 then, now unranked, 18-11, 7th in the ACC, no guarantee to make the NCAAT

So, where is the true quality? Kent State really, and that's about it.

[stuball888]

when will the awards be announced

[Wags]

when will the awards be announced

I think probably by no later than Thursday, with the tournament starting Friday.

[EvanJ]

Please fact check me if you like, but I believe Hofstra was the only CAA team to defeat a Top 25 opponent (Charleston, ranked 18th at the time) this season.

I checked standings on ESPN. From 2016-2017 to now, the CAA's only wins over AP ranked teams were us against Charleston and Arkansas.

[Jojogunne]

Well, that certainly puts the Arkansas and Charleston wins in perspective. Thanks for for the research, Evan.

[Jojogunne]

So even though Charleston had lengthy winning streaks before and after their back-to-back CAA losses, they had no significant wins. That's why I say Speedy deserves Coach of the Year over Kesley.

Charleston certainly has wins in volume, in fact not just better than anyone in the CAA, better than anyone in the nation in terms of the sheer number of wins.

But the quality of those wins is no longer what people expect them to be at the time:

Chatanooga 15-16, 7th in the SoCon
Richmond 14-15, tied for 9th in A10
Davidson 14-14, tied for 9th in A10
Colorado State 13-16, 9th in MWC
Virginia Tech 16-14, 12 in ACC
Kent State 23-6, 2nd in MAC
Old Dominion 19-11, 5th in Sun Belt
The Citadel 10-21, 9th in SoCon
Presbyterian 5-26, 10th in Big South
North Greenville, non-D1
Stetson 17-12, 3rd in ASun
Coastal Carolina 11-19, 12th in Sun Belt

Even leading North Carolina in the second half and losing - UNC was #1 then, now unranked, 18-11, 7th in the ACC, no guarantee to make the NCAAT

So, where is the true quality? Kent State really, and that's about it.

Thanks for chasing down those records, Wags. Winning streaks capture the public's fancy. In fact, we have one now, right?

[Wags]

So even though Charleston had lengthy winning streaks before and after their back-to-back CAA losses, they had no significant wins. That's why I say Speedy deserves Coach of the Year over Kesley.

Charleston certainly has wins in volume, in fact not just better than anyone in the CAA, better than anyone in the nation in terms of the sheer number of wins.

But the quality of those wins is no longer what people expect them to be at the time:

Chatanooga 15-16, 7th in the SoCon
Richmond 14-15, tied for 9th in A10
Davidson 14-14, tied for 9th in A10
Colorado State 13-16, 9th in MWC
Virginia Tech 16-14, 12 in ACC
Kent State 23-6, 2nd in MAC
Old Dominion 19-11, 5th in Sun Belt
The Citadel 10-21, 9th in SoCon
Presbyterian 5-26, 10th in Big South
North Greenville, non-D1
Stetson 17-12, 3rd in ASun
Coastal Carolina 11-19, 12th in Sun Belt

Even leading North Carolina in the second half and losing - UNC was #1 then, now unranked, 18-11, 7th in the ACC, no guarantee to make the NCAAT

So, where is the true quality? Kent State really, and that's about it.

Thanks for chasing down those records, Wags. Winning streaks capture the public's fancy. In fact, we have one now, right?

Yup, the win streak is the biggest reason why Katz (fair or not) has them at 34 now. A couple plays go the wrong way at Stony Brook a couple of Saturdays ago, and everything else the same for HU this season and I think they're not even close to making his Power 36.

Further to your point, Charleston's winning streak is why they were in the Top 25, despite (as noted above with their OOC wins and from what we know about the bottom 2/3 or so of the CAA) the lack of quality for a lot of the wins during that streak - one very narrow loss to Hofstra, streak over, and they instantly went from #18 to out of the Top 25.

As for HU's streak, let's just get to 14 straight and then we can talk about capturing the public's fancy and polls and all that stuff.

[Wags]

Posted in a new thread created today, but adding here as well since this was started earlier:

Speedy - COY
Estrada - POY
Thomas - Second Team
Carlos - Defensive Team

Those along with a 1 seed when the 2 seed was 16-2. Great regular season for HU.

Hofstra is a CAA POY factory (five POYs, three of them back-to-back):

Estrada - 2022 & 2023
JWF - 2018 & 2019
Green - 2016
Jenkins - 2010 & 2011
Stokes - 2007