Wanted: Coaches

[Wags]

Wags I like your comment about addressing and taking care of the weaknesses a very common sense statement but will we see it thru to fruition. Your comment however about having a first round NBA player is off the mark and that's not the reason we haven't gone dancing in this conference. We haven't gone dancing depending on where you want to place the blame can be any number of things from maybe inept coaching(for some), not good enough recruiting, bad luck, hostile venues off shooting nights etc. etc. etc. I'd like to know what team in this league has won the championship here and gone dancing because they have had a first round draft pick on their roster?

Completely misread and misrepresented what I was saying on this, so I will clarify.

I did not in any way say you need an NBA first-round pick to go dancing in the CAA. I said that was the reason Hofstra went dancing with Speedy (and then built off of that success to go dancing again, the following year). That comment was made in reference to others' claims that HU needs to move down again to win. So what I was saying was just the opposite, that you DON'T need that in the CAA. You're already competing and just need to take the last step. But you don't need to move down in order to win a conference title (and even if you did, there's still absolutely no guarantee you'd win a conference title there anyway).

[Wags]

Ok Wags, now I'm going to take great exception to the 'fickle fan' comment because I know I am part of the group you are referencing lol. That's total BS bud.

You posted this before the CAA tourney, then trashed the team afterwards. One game later. Sorry, but that's pretty much the definition of being fickle. lol

http://www.flyingdutchmenfans.com/viewt ... f=2&t=1581

My friend, passion and standards are not fickle, and with all due respect, you are not the fan above all fans.

Did I ever claim to be?

[Flying Dutchmen]

See the truth is it doesn't take that long when things are done right, when expectations are set and met via whatever means necessary (within the rules of course). It only takes ridiculous amounts of time if nothing ever changes, if nothing is ever addressed, and the standards are low or treated too casually by the governing body. I do not accept what we've seen, and neither should anyone else who pays money to support it. And I am not sorry about my expectations for progression and success, nor am I changing them.

The problem is you're always changing the scope of why we fail. First it's the coaching, then it's the recruits they bring in (Wormley), then it's the administration, now it's the conference. And the response is always something along the lines that we should demand more. Well, yeah, it's kind of self-referential that if we don't make the NCAAT, and the goal is to make it, we should want more. And you can never lose the argument if at the end of the year we don't make the dance. And I understand the inter-relation of staff and administration in acquiring hoops success, but it's just a strange argument. Like we all want to be Gonzaga, but they had a perfect storm of events break their way to become a national power, including an administration that went all in on athletics, which will frankly never happen at Hofstra. If the perfect storm is out of the picture, you have to build it up gradually, earn the recruits and fans trust again.

The truth is, saying this year is a big failure because we didn't get into the NCAAT, just discredits the hard work the coaching staff and people in the administration are putting in right now. Mihalich and Hathaway have made us a top 4 program in the CAA over the past 5 years, and we're still trending upward IMO. It's not perfect by any means, I've gotten frustrated many times during the Mihalich era, but on the whole, this year was an improvement from '17, and we're trending upward in '19 so it's not like the program is stagnant. There are hundreds of stagnant programs, gaining no success, and just shuffling out the coach every few years. But we're actually making progress, we're building up our talent, we've had our toughest schedule in years, and the CAA should be on the upswing next year, probably a top-10/12 RPI/Pomeroy conference. We're sitting in a good position.

[Wags]

There are hundreds of stagnant programs, gaining no success, and just shuffling out the coach every few years. But we're actually making progress, we're building up our talent, we've had our toughest schedule in years, and the CAA should be on the upswing next year, probably a top-10/12 RPI/Pomeroy conference. We're sitting in a good position.

We don't have to look very far for this. A few of those stagnant programs are the ones that sat below HU in the CAA standings this year. What should those teams' fans say?

I know 17 years seems like a long time, but timelines are generally long for many programs like Hofstra around the nation.

Look who's repping the CAA in the NCAAT this year. First trip in 19 years (and for those who want to move to a supposed easier conference in which to win, that was after a SoCon NCAAT drought from 2000 until moving to the CAA in 2013).

Look who that team beat in the CAA semis to get there (that team is one of the four original teams yet to have made a first NCAAT trip, and the job of that team's coach is somehow as secure as anyone's).

Doesn't mean we should wait patiently without demanding any change until 17 years turns into 30, 40 or 50... it just means look around at how this works for the average program like Hofstra for some perspective. As FD said, HU is in the top 4, not the bottom 4, and trending upward not downward. So just go from there and hopefully next year or very soon thereafter it's your turn.

[triplec2195]

Wags I like your comment about addressing and taking care of the weaknesses a very common sense statement but will we see it thru to fruition. Your comment however about having a first round NBA player is off the mark and that's not the reason we haven't gone dancing in this conference. We haven't gone dancing depending on where you want to place the blame can be any number of things from maybe inept coaching(for some), not good enough recruiting, bad luck, hostile venues off shooting nights etc. etc. etc. I'd like to know what team in this league has won the championship here and gone dancing because they have had a first round draft pick on their roster?

Completely misread and misrepresented what I was saying on this, so I will clarify.

I did not in any way say you need an NBA first-round pick to go dancing in the CAA. I said that was the reason Hofstra went dancing with Speedy (and then built off of that success to go dancing again, the following year). That comment was made in reference to others' claims that HU needs to move down again to win. So what I was saying was just the opposite, that you DON'T need that in the CAA. You're already competing and just need to take the last step. But you don't need to move down in order to win a conference title (and even if you did, there's still absolutely no guarantee you'd win a conference title there anyway).

OK Wags fair enough but this what you said " Here's a secret: If Hofstra had some first-round NBA draft picks since then, they likely would've already gone dancing out of the CAA. Maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say?

[Wags]

Wags I like your comment about addressing and taking care of the weaknesses a very common sense statement but will we see it thru to fruition. Your comment however about having a first round NBA player is off the mark and that's not the reason we haven't gone dancing in this conference. We haven't gone dancing depending on where you want to place the blame can be any number of things from maybe inept coaching(for some), not good enough recruiting, bad luck, hostile venues off shooting nights etc. etc. etc. I'd like to know what team in this league has won the championship here and gone dancing because they have had a first round draft pick on their roster?

Completely misread and misrepresented what I was saying on this, so I will clarify.

I did not in any way say you need an NBA first-round pick to go dancing in the CAA. I said that was the reason Hofstra went dancing with Speedy (and then built off of that success to go dancing again, the following year). That comment was made in reference to others' claims that HU needs to move down again to win. So what I was saying was just the opposite, that you DON'T need that in the CAA. You're already competing and just need to take the last step. But you don't need to move down in order to win a conference title (and even if you did, there's still absolutely no guarantee you'd win a conference title there anyway).

OK Wags fair enough but this what you said " Here's a secret: If Hofstra had some first-round NBA draft picks since then, they likely would've already gone dancing out of the CAA. Maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say?

Meaning it's not necessary to win the CAA (obviously it's done nearly every year without NBA talent) but had HU they had that in some years, they probably would've already won a CAA tourney, in the same way NBA talent (Speedy and Richardson) carried HU to their last NCAATs. Yet we look back at that and say it must've been the easier conference (then vs. now) rather than the talent.

[Polito]

That is BS Wags, I did not and have not 'trashed' the team, and you are completely out of line for saying that. Honestly, I'm done with you on this topic, I've said my piece numerous times in numerous ways, and you either refuse to see it or are just too stunad to, so I'm moving on. I'm sure you'll take that as a victory, so more power to ya "winner".

I do not see an upward trend, and have pointed to the facts as such. You guys just saying that doesn't make it so. What is the tangible progression since the champ game appearance? A wasted POY? Hey, I'm open to seeing it differently, so I'll wait for your counter-facts (not your opinion) and assess from there.

FD, you are also incorrect, I have not changed the reasons why at all. I have been steady on the coaching issues for quite some time (at least 2 years, probably longer). Wormley was a coaching decision, and I literally posted that it was flat out lazy recruiting and the wrong move for the #1 position of need.

Of course I was crucified for that perspective, which turned out to be correct - but no one dare say I was actually right... heaven forbid . I digress... point here is I have stayed true to my views, whether you guys agree with them or not. I have posted on the coaching elements so many times I'm amazed at how that could ever be lost or misconstrued.

I swear some of you just love twisting my words to perpetuate the Polito hatefest at every turn...it's like a friggin hater fanclub around here any time I post, bunch of damn piranhas LOL. Whatever floats your boat I guess, won't shake my tree in the least. Hey... wait a minute... maybe I did finally unite the group!!!!

Don't care if I'm an army of 1 or many, I'm confident in the truth and value of my perspectives, so marching on...

[Wags]

That is BS Wags, I did not and have not 'trashed' the team, and you are completely out of line for saying that. Honestly, I'm done with you on this topic, I've said my piece numerous times in numerous ways, and you either refuse to see it or are just too stunad to, so I'm moving on. I'm sure you'll take that as a victory, so more power to ya "winner".

Not what I was looking for at all. It's all just sharing personal opinions, there are no winners or losers. And people who don't share your views aren't necessarily "stunad." It's perfectly fine to disagree and to allow others to disagree.

I've never questioned that you're true Blue & Gold, I simply found the pretty strong level to which you said the program is going in the wrong direction merely one game after your program appreciation thread was a drastic and quick turnaround.

[triplec2195]

Wags I like your comment about addressing and taking care of the weaknesses a very common sense statement but will we see it thru to fruition. Your comment however about having a first round NBA player is off the mark and that's not the reason we haven't gone dancing in this conference. We haven't gone dancing depending on where you want to place the blame can be any number of things from maybe inept coaching(for some), not good enough recruiting, bad luck, hostile venues off shooting nights etc. etc. etc. I'd like to know what team in this league has won the championship here and gone dancing because they have had a first round draft pick on their roster?

Completely misread and misrepresented what I was saying on this, so I will clarify.

I did not in any way say you need an NBA first-round pick to go dancing in the CAA. I said that was the reason Hofstra went dancing with Speedy (and then built off of that success to go dancing again, the following year). That comment was made in reference to others' claims that HU needs to move down again to win. So what I was saying was just the opposite, that you DON'T need that in the CAA. You're already competing and just need to take the last step. But you don't need to move down in order to win a conference title (and even if you did, there's still absolutely no guarantee you'd win a conference title there anyway).

OK Wags fair enough but this what you said " Here's a secret: If Hofstra had some first-round NBA draft picks since then, they likely would've already gone dancing out of the CAA. Maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say?

Meaning it's not necessary to win the CAA (obviously it's done nearly every year without NBA talent) but had HU they had that in some years, they probably would've already won a CAA tourney, in the same way NBA talent (Speedy and Richardson) carried HU to their last NCAATs. Yet we look back at that and say it must've been the easier conference (then vs. now) rather than the talent.[/quote]

So to be clear here having a first round NBA player got us to the NCAAT with Speedy in the first year 2000 and then the following year we got there 2001 with just Richardson who wasn't drafted but played in the NBA. So Wags is it your opinion with these players and maybe even the same team against a team like UNCW(THEIR tourney teams) or let's say this years COC we would have beaten these teams?? I know people will say the conference is stronger now but is that your opinion??

[Wags]

So to be clear here having a first round NBA player got us to the NCAAT with Speedy in the first year 2000 and then the following year we got there 2001 with just Richardson who wasn't drafted but played in the NBA.

Not drafted but Richardson still played in the NBA (however briefly). For that league at the time, he was the same transcendent type of player (even if not on Speedy's level)) that could carry a team in a league like that. That's why he was the POY in the AE that year.

So Wags is it your opinion with these players and maybe even the same team against a team like UNCW(THEIR tourney teams) or let's say this years COC we would have beaten these teams?? I know people will say the conference is stronger now but is that your opinion??

You said it, the CAA is stronger than what the AE was then (and now). So, not necessarily. But in a league like the AE, when Hofstra won it? Absolutely.

So when people say it was so much easier to win in the AE back then vs. in the CAA since, simply because the competition was less back then, it had more to do with having special players like Speedy and Norm that you weren't necessarily going to keep getting in a league like the AE (which again, is why you jump to the CAA, where can get better talent - hence HU's five CAA POYs).

[Flying Dutchmen]

I do not see an upward trend, and have pointed to the facts as such. You guys just saying that doesn't make it so. What is the tangible progression since the champ game appearance? A wasted POY? Hey, I'm open to seeing it differently, so I'll wait for your counter-facts (not your opinion) and assess from there.

We jumped up 78 spots in the RPI from '17, jumped up 20 spots in the Pomeroy, we have more depth on the roster in my opinion, and the roster is spread out better along the recruiting classes, so a significant fall off like between '16 and '17 seems less likely moving forward.

I think the coaching staff has actually developed the guards well. I think nearly everyone thought JWF deserved more minutes his freshman year, I've always been high on him, but POY is an incredible feat, and shows lots of growth. Buie has come back from the knee injury well, he struggled early, but I thought he had the best stretch of his career in conference play. Pemba has become a better defender, he came out of the gate a good scorer, but I think he's become more complete. I like the growth in Trueheart's game as well, I can see it all coming together for him next season. Ray is a stud too who kind of got lost in the mix, I love his game though, he could see a jump in minutes next year.

Jury is out on Radovic/Coburn/Schutte, let's see their role next year. They got Wormley playing some useful minutes later in the year, but he got badly outplayed by Buie, don't hate him as a depth guy though. That's 9 players who should have some level of impact on the '19 season, probably the most we've had in a decade.

The key is bringing in a JUCO forward, who can defend the perimeter, so we can play more man to man. If we can do that, we will have solid depth.

We've doubled our bench usage from '16, which I think is an important factor in winning conference games, we've discussed that you ride your horses in the conference tournament, but having some fallback helps, both Northeastern and Charleston had 6th men play 29 minutes in the final, we were missing that in '16.

The key is improving the defense. We jumped 30 spots in defensive efficiency from '17 to 281st, but it's frankly insignificant in my opinion. I just thought our forwards were defensive liabilities in nearly every game we played. I felt like we got in so many shootouts because our interior defense was so bad. Look what UNCW did to us in the second half of the quarterfinal, they pulled Rok out of the paint, took jumpshots and runners, got Rok out of position and picked up the offensive rebound until they scored.

That's the fatal flaw the staff has to address, and it needs to be addressed with a change of defensive scheme, and a recruit or two that can address that problem. If they can't improve it next year, I don't know if we ever will.

But I think we're trending upward because if we keep recruiting the way we have, I don't see a season where there will be a massive drop-off in talent for the next 3 years.

[HofstraUSA]

My friend, passion and standards are not fickle, and with all due respect, you are not the fan above all fans.

LOL. This is pretty rich coming from you.

[Hofstra]

Woulda been awesome watching Hofstra play today..

[Wags]

Woulda been awesome watching Hofstra play today..

If it were competitive, yeah.

But down 87-59, like Iona is to Duke with 4 minutes left, I could do without.

[Hofstra]

So you'd rather not make the NCAA tourney than lose to Duke by 22?

[Wags]

So you'd rather not make the NCAA tourney than lose to Duke by 22?

If it means playing in a worse league, yeah. That's fun for the first year, then it gets old real fast. Rather keep trying to win a better league so you can do something with the bid when you finally get it.

[Hofstra]

Interesting take. I mean, as Hofstra fans, I can't imagine it ever getting old. I mean, as Hofstra fans, I can't imagine it even happening at this point, but hopefully I/we one day can say "yea, this is boring"

[Wags]

Interesting take. I mean, as Hofstra fans, I can't imagine it ever getting old. I mean, as Hofstra fans, I can't imagine it even happening at this point, but hopefully I/we one day can say "yea, this is boring"

Spare me the melodrama. Did Hofstra just go 0-18 in the CAA this year? That's what the statement above sounds like.

I bet you were imagining it two years ago, up 12 in the CAA title game. Just didn't close. It happens (ask Northeastern).

[Hofstra]

Interesting take. I mean, as Hofstra fans, I can't imagine it ever getting old. I mean, as Hofstra fans, I can't imagine it even happening at this point, but hopefully I/we one day can say "yea, this is boring"

Spare me the melodrama. Did Hofstra just go 0-18 in the CAA this year? That's what the statement above sounds like.

I bet you were imagining it two years ago, up 12 in the CAA title game. Just didn't close. It happens (ask Northeastern).

You act as we are this team that makes the dance every year. You're above playing in the dance as a 15 or 16 seed. LOL, you crazy. We're Hofstra. We should be taking what we can get. By no means should any single Hofstra fan not yearn for a dance regardless of seeding at this point. Give a 16 seed vs. MJ and the Bulls played on the Moon at this point.

[HUclassof19]

Woulda been awesome watching Hofstra play today..

If it were competitive, yeah.

But down 87-59, like Iona is to Duke with 4 minutes left, I could do without.

i usually agree with you but you are crazy. and iona has been more than competitive in their many appearances over the years.