Wanted: Coaches

[joeg1]

That's why this year hurts so much...we had the team to win it. Joe was too thick-headed to adjust.

Next year, we'll play small (we have five talented guards) and we just need a serviceable big, who may or may not be on the roster yet. I agree, we can/should win next year. We could be even better.

[Wags]

That's why this year hurts so much...we had the team to win it. Joe was too thick-headed to adjust.

Next year, we'll play small (we have five talented guards) and we just need a serviceable big, who may or may not be on the roster yet. I agree, we can/should win next year. We could be even better.

They had the team to contend, and they did finish third. But the team to win it? Not so sure about that.

The way NU played in its first 2 1/2 games of this year's tourney, they would have beaten HU in the semis.

And if HU somehow did pull off that upset, if NU wasn't good enough to hold a 17-point lead in what became a hostile "road" environment, you really think Hofstra was capable of beating Charleston in that spot?

I know we always like to think Hofstra, when it's in the top 3 or 4, has the best talent in the CAA, but aside from JWF, I don't think we're very honest about that. So then, we fall back on the automatic crutch of blaming it on the coaching staff. Could the staff have done a much better job with adjustments? Yeah, they could have done a few things to try to force the ball out of Talley's hands after halftime, for one. But it almost always is mainly on the players. Notice we didn't have anyone one First Team or Second Team aside from JWF, and just one on the Third Team, mainly because of a single skill in particular. There's a reason for that. If you're honest about the talent limitations, you'll be honest about the expectations.

[HUSID74]

Wags you score again in my book.

Another Major point that NOBODY has addressed is the fact that the players on this team are ALL IN with this coaching staff. That tells you an awful lot.

Nobody of significance has left this program since Joe and has staff arrived.

We recruit and RETAIN our key players.

Very important in my opinion.

[Wags]

Wags you score again in my book.

Another Major point that NOBODY has addressed is the fact that the players on this team are ALL IN with this coaching staff. That tells you an awful lot.

Nobody of significance has left this program since Joe and has staff arrived.

We recruit and RETAIN our key players.

Very important in my opinion.

I actually did bring this up in one of the thousand-and-one back-and-forth exchanges (which gets me thinking that although we may not always agree here, we should pat ourselves on the collective back, because what other fanbase, especially one of a mid-major that has never won an NCAAT game and hasn't been to an NCAAT in 17 years, would be this engaged four days after seeing their team's season basically end, pending the CBI/CIT?).

But yeah, I mentioned this (I don't know when, recently, or in which thread) with the implication that it could have negative impacts for next season.

I think I had said in whatever thread that was... THEY are the ones that play, if THEY want this staff, who are WE to say they shouldn't have it? Put yourself in their shoes and especially in JWF's. He's extremely close with Buie and those too are pretty close with others on the team. And none of them have an issue with Joe or his staff. You're coming off your POY season with most key guys back and you're a senior. And someone is going to tell you there will be major coaching changes, including the head coach, before that senior season? I don't know about you, but I'd be pissed and I don't know how anyone would think that might not have a very adverse effect on a team that will probably be one of the favorites to contend again next year.

[Polito]

And if you are honest about the staffs ability to COACH the players THEY recruited, well then doesn't that also tell a lot?

I agree with you Wags, some good accurate points on player D talent lacking, no argument there. But you cannot sit here and not put that on the staff. This is the team THEY put together. So either they can't recruit 2 way players, or they can't develop them. Either way, on THEM.

It always always always goes back to the leadership in the coaching staff. To ignore that and try to act like this is the players fault (19 and 20 year olds mind you), is very naive and inappropriate IMO. The issue either way resides somewhere with the paid adult experienced staff - that is the case for ANY collegiate program.

You simply cannot discount that Wags.

HUSID, I agree 100% with your point there - it is a great one, and totally true IMO. I've really never had an issue with their recruiting (save the solid point Wags makes about D talent), nor the type of young men bring in. Such good kids, and SO easy to root for.

The fact that players love them and no one leaves is a HUGE deal, and they deserve plenty of credit for that. I know for a fact I have commended them before on this very thing, on these boards. Now they are not the only staff in the world like that, and there will be others fully capable after them, but it is great to have for sure.

Great timing and great point to note.

The real question is, are they capable of leading these great young men they bring in to the 'next level'? Or are THEY the limitation?

It's a very fair question, whether you like it or not.

[Wags]

And if you are honest about the staffs ability to COACH the players THEY recruited, well then doesn't that also tell a lot?

I agree with you Wags, some good accurate points on player D talent lacking, no argument there. But you cannot sit here and not put that on the staff. This is the team THEY put together. So either they can't recruit 2 way players, or they can't develop them. Either way, on THEM.

It always always always goes back to the leadership in the coaching staff. To ignore that and try to act like this is the players fault (19 and 20 year olds mind you), is very naive and inappropriate IMO. The issue either way resides somewhere with the paid adult experienced staff - that is the case for ANY collegiate program.

The real question is, are they capable of leading these great young men they bring in to the 'next level'? Or are THEY the limitation?

Never said it was all on the players. It never is. I've always said it's a combination of the players AND the staff. And really, the staff would be the first to admit that when they don't get it done. You win and lose as a team, including the coaching staff. The difference (as you noted) with college athletics is obviously that there's no GM, like in the pros. So if the talent is part of the problem, it's even more on the staff for doing the recruiting in the first place.

However, it's not all on the staff either. You can prepare players, you can break down for them what you see on film, you can walk it through in practice, you can go over it again and again until you think they have it down and they say they have it down, and may even show it in practice enough to make you feel confident about that. But if they don't go out and execute that in games, I don't think the fact that they're 19, 20, 21-year-olds playing for a scholarship instead of significantly older pros making millions completely absolves them of all responsibility to get the job done. Otherwise, don't play and don't take up a scholarship that could've gone to someone else who might've given more effort and might've given more attention to detail.

[Flying Dutchmen]

Wow, this conversation has degraded into the equivalency of arguing over what color of light blue should the bedroom be painted in.

Literally all posters believe that Joe's coming back next year, we have a good team on paper, we need to improve our defense by any means possible, and if we don't, Joe's staff is in trouble moving forward.

HUSID, when's Joe getting elected into the Basketball HOF? Where's the next prospect Polito will tell us is the second coming, if the staff can develop him. When's the next CBI game Wags will tell us we may not win if we get in shootout?

Jokes aside, the salient points have been covered, I love the goddamn passion. I hope we get another game to root for this team, even though the secondary tournaments are stupid; if not, I had a blast rooting for this team with everyone on the board this year, it makes it more enjoyable. Brian, you opened Pandora's Box with this thread, lol.

[triplec2195]

I'm with you Flying Dutchmen let's keep playing and getting passionate pissed off etc. Maybe our coach would be in the running for defensive coach of the year if there was such a category Lol however in his many speeches he promised us exciting basketball with a lot of scoring never mentioned anything about playing lockdown D!!

[Polito]

LOL touché FD!

But you forgot a few more:

My buddy Stu reminding us how amazing SBU is and that they are taking over LI
HUclassof19 posting on a free board that welcomes all that no one can have a different opinion, instead of actually using the post to POST AN OPINION!
And of course yourself to pipe in and tell all us lowly padawans how it really is as you are the only one true Jedi




Agree with you guys, for a school that has few fans, we bring some serious passion and fire to match the best fanbases in the country, and we have some serious characters among us all on this board!!!

Hard not to love it, and impossible to stay away!

[joeg1]

Before his 4th straight big east final, our old coach just said the providence game would be a rock fight....this is a man who teaches players how to defend. D is about effort and character. Offense is fun and the act of shooting is in itself selfish, although obviously necessary.

Regardless of who plays the 5 for us next year, we should contend, again. Watching some great teams play...they all defend. Please, Joe, evolve enough for us to be a winner.

[stuball888]

Almost every coach who has been successful have said "Offense wins games, Defense wins championships".

[Hofstra]

Jokes aside, the salient points have been covered, I love the goddamn passion. I hope we get another game to root for this team, even though the secondary tournaments are stupid; if not, I had a blast rooting for this team with everyone on the board this year, it makes it more enjoyable. Brian, you opened Pandora's Box with this thread, lol.

I love it. That box should remain open. No more complacency with this team. Next year is put up or shut up year for him. We all say that he will most likely have his most talented team. So while I want/need a championship, I will fully expect a conference finals appearance.

[Wags]

Before his 4th straight big east final, our old coach just said the providence game would be a rock fight....this is a man who teaches players how to defend. D is about effort and character. Offense is fun and the act of shooting is in itself selfish, although obviously necessary.

Defense can be a LOT of fun too, IF you have the mentality that you love to lock down and frustrate opposing offenses.

I'm not sure our players (most importantly) or our staff have that mentality. That's where good defense begins.

[triplec2195]

Jokes aside, the salient points have been covered, I love the goddamn passion. I hope we get another game to root for this team, even though the secondary tournaments are stupid; if not, I had a blast rooting for this team with everyone on the board this year, it makes it more enjoyable. Brian, you opened Pandora's Box with this thread, lol.

I love it. That box should remain open. No more complacency with this team. Next year is put up or shut up year for him. We all say that he will most likely have his most talented team. So while I want/need a championship, I will fully expect a conference finals appearance.

There are some statements or opinions that jump out at you that you can't let go without commenting on. Who's is saying that our team next year will be our most talented?? Clearly we have a good team coming back but most talented after losing ROK and Sabety also Angus. Even the people out there that aren't ROK lovers no we have a big void to fill. Do we think that the infusion of Coburn is going to be that significant and Schutte? We will be one of the teams to beat at least on paper but let's be realistic.

[Wags]

Jokes aside, the salient points have been covered, I love the goddamn passion. I hope we get another game to root for this team, even though the secondary tournaments are stupid; if not, I had a blast rooting for this team with everyone on the board this year, it makes it more enjoyable. Brian, you opened Pandora's Box with this thread, lol.

I love it. That box should remain open. No more complacency with this team. Next year is put up or shut up year for him. We all say that he will most likely have his most talented team. So while I want/need a championship, I will fully expect a conference finals appearance.

There are some statements or opinions that jump out at you that you can't let go without commenting on. Who's is saying that our team next year will be our most talented?? Clearly we have a good team coming back but most talented after losing ROK and Sabety also Angus. Even the people out there that aren't ROK lovers no we have a big void to fill. Do we think that the infusion of Coburn is going to be that significant and Schutte? We will be one of the teams to beat at least on paper but let's be realistic.

This is a big part of the problem of why there is so much outrage toward the coaching staff each year -- not objectively viewing the talent on the roster. Not saying the staff hasn't fallen short in certain areas (they'd be the first to admit it). But on this board, every recruit is "the next great player." Every team is the "most talent HU squad ever." Then there's reality. We've gone through how many dozens of posts acknowledging that the team has some serious shortcomings, especially where the team lacks defensive talent? And yet we then turn around and say, "Next year's team is going to be great talent wise and should absolutely get it done." Then we get upset when they don't. And as you said, how do you replace the void from Rok? Charleston only loses Chealey from its core and will still be very good. Northeastern will still be very good. We seem to discount these things, make a lot of assumptions that can't necessarily be backed up and then wonder why we're disappointed later.

[triplec2195]

OK fellas it's time to put your money where your mouth is or is it more like HU throwing their hat in the ring now that Kevin Ollie has been fired at UCONN. So after
having a 97-44 record in his first 4 years and winning The NCAAT in 2014 he gets canned for I guess improprieties involving the basketball program. His last two seasons he went 30-35. Do u think he can have us playing defense here and get us some good recruits? His salary is listed as 1.3 mil which means that a lot of us boosters are going to have to go to the well way down in that well it sounds like. I think with the ties Jeff Hathaway has with UCONN we might be considered one of the front runners! Si or No?? We could probably win consecutive CAA championships here but would we be sacrificing the integrity of the program that Joe has worked hard to re-establish? I know it's a pipe dream but I thought I would have some fun with this one!!

[cactus]

OK fellas it's time to put your money where your mouth is or is it more like HU throwing their hat in the ring now that Kevin Ollie has been fired at UCONN. So after
having a 97-44 record in his first 4 years and winning The NCAAT in 2014 he gets canned for I guess improprieties involving the basketball program. His last two seasons he went 30-35. Do u think he can have us playing defense here and get us some good recruits? His salary is listed as 1.3 mil which means that a lot of us boosters are going to have to go to the well way down in that well it sounds like. I think with the ties Jeff Hathaway has with UCONN we might be considered one of the front runners! Si or No?? We could probably win consecutive CAA championships here but would we be sacrificing the integrity of the program that Joe has worked hard to re-establish? I know it's a pipe dream but I thought I would have some fun with this one!!

I don't think you want to touch any of the coaches involved in recruiting scandals prior to that NCAA FBI investigation wrapping up. If you hire a guy and then later on you find out his name is part of that it would be a disaster.

[Hofstra]

I dont understand. When I say the team stunk, I get people chirping. When I say the team is going to be good, I get people saying cool the breaks. I don't get it. If we don't stink, but we aren't good to win a championship in our league, what is the point of competing? Shouldn't we expect more here? Maybe lets leave the conference? We have been battling mediocrity for 18 years here now.

When triplec mentioned that filling Rok would be a tough task, he mentioned 2 players on the roster already. No one mentioned any incoming freshmen? Do we not have a single one signed yet? None will be impactful? Isn't it a tad late in the game? Maybe we can get a grad kid again. To say we will miss Angus though triple? I mean, maybe he was a nice kid, but him and Sabety aren't logging these major minutes to say that we will miss them. Just nice program seniors. I would expect them to be easily replaceable.

Wags, I rarely if ever speak on recruits. I don't follow the circuit at a mid-major level. So I don't want to say that the entire board hypes them up. Your last post though stinks of mediocrity. I just want to know when we are allowed to be upset when we don't win the league? TBH, I posted that we will be good next year because everyone was upset that I said we stunk months ago. I don't think we will win next year. I posted it because many people, not all on here think its all rainbows and butterflies. I want to win, I am tired of not winning. So if we aren't going to win next year, when will we win?

I also want no part of Kevin Ollie. Inherited a great team, and stunk after that. I wouldn't be surprised if his name was involved in the recruiting scandals.

[joeg1]

FWIW...Joe's son Joe Jr, an asst at Penn is dancing, as it our own Bob McKillop at Davidson

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Wags]

Wags, I rarely if ever speak on recruits. I don't follow the circuit at a mid-major level. So I don't want to say that the entire board hypes them up. Your last post though stinks of mediocrity

Not sure I follow you on that one. I would love HU to be the most talented, best-coached team that wins CAA regular season and CAA tourney titles every year. I've never said any different.

All I said in the post you referenced was that because we ALL want that from HU, it doesn't make it so. The team was picked 4th and finished 3rd this year. They basically met expectations.

That's not hoping for or accepting mediocrity, that's setting realistic expectations as a legit contender that's significantly better than mediocre, but short of being able to win titles. But hey, if it makes you happy to bash the coaching staff for having a team that's about the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference fail to win a title, go ahead. In the meantime, I'll keep calling it like I see it. So far, that's been HU typically bringing in and developing a lot of POYs and other top players in the CAA, but failing to recruit TEAMS that are good enough to win championships, while the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th guys are routinely hyped up beyond their capabilities on this board. Maybe next year that'll be different and those guys WILL finally put HU over the top. I'm just saying don't expect if you don't see it, just because you want it to happen. Be honest about the talent you're seeing on the floor from everyone, and that includes defensive talent, not just at the other end of the floor.