Wanted: Coaches

[Wags]

I would LOVE to be in the Patriot League. Could really get into those matchups, and really for most all sports.

But trust me, HU wouldn't win that conf much either with this current regime and system. Those guys play sound basketball, not poor mans And1. HU needs a more balanced system...i.e. CHANGE.

I'm with FD on no to Pecora - I know it was just spitballing, but we don't need O or D, we need BOTH lol - not rocket science, and many successful mid majors find a way to do it. Just not this one.

The problem I have going forward is, HU is going to be very talented once again - but the staff has proven they either really don't care about D, or they are incapable of coaching it. Both are highly unacceptable at this level. So what's going to happen next year?

You all already know what's going to happen. No need to fool ourselves - I and some others called this I believe in January (give or take) - said then this team is going nowhere because it's the same old same old. Held out hope of course because at least the talent is there for the most part, the team had depth and experience, but the coaching remained suspect. So NOTHING will change until changes are MADE.

Next year could very well be HU's best and deepest backcourt in decades. HU could very well have another POY (either JWF or Pemba IMO), and others all-conf. And they will do nothing with it again because they have never and will never fix the D issue.

I won't go crazy about the FT's even though that's a big reason for the loss and has been terrible the last few games. It was for the most part a much better year in that category. This was really all about D of course.

I do agree also on the point Wags makes regarding D talent. That's def a real thing. But see that isn't on the players either bud. It's squarely on the coaches who brought them in. And whether they care or not, if your students don't learn from you after 5 years, it ain't the students. It's the teacher.

As much as the coaching and of defense and creating a mindset about the importance of defense has lacked from the staff, it's what you just said... it's more on the coaches for recruiting guys that lack defensive skills in the first place. That's where it starts and that's where it's the most important. When you recruit two-way players, you don't have to teach them THAT much... they've already been taught, through high school and AAU and earlier how to play defense the right way. It's part of their makeup. It's already been instilled in them. They still need coaching and guidance with adjusting to the next level in D-1, but they already largely know what to do and have the heart and will to do it because they've already been doing it long before arriving at college.

We'd probably all (or mostly?) agree Coen (as evidenced by this year's COY award) is the best coach and maybe the best defensive coach in the CAA right now. Well, did Coen suddenly figure out how to coach that way only this year and 3 years ago, when he won his only CAA title? And did he not know how to coach that way the two 6th-place years in between (before this year) or during in the 6 years (with 4 losing seasons) prior to three years ago? Or did he and his staff recruit enough two-way players that he had what he needed to work with three years ago and again this year as opposed to what he and his staff recruited in those other years?

[HUSID74]

Once again Wags, thanks for your thoughtful and well informed posts...sorely needed around here.

[budman]

I do not think it is news to any on this board that Coen is a very good coach. Coen gets the most out of his teams and they play good defense and they do not always have the best athletes. Any one I have talked to about who the best coaches in the CAA was would put him in the top two. Wags no one has every said Coen was not a good coach. At least any one from Hofstra so where are you coming from. I think most of us would think the Tony Shaver is a good coach and he has not won the CAA tournament . I am not calling for Joes head i just wish his teams played better defense.

[Hofstra]

Once again Wags, thanks for your thoughtful and well informed posts...sorely needed around here.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. In an early round exit like this, again, people have the right to be upset. People even have the right to want change after 5 years of the same nonsense. We are deficient in defense. What is so wrong about wanting something changed?

[HUSID74]

So the "best" coach in the league blew a 17 point lead to lose the CAA Championship. My God, what would you guys do on these boards...he would be skewered and cooked.

Yes people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are totally clueless.

[Wags]

So the "best" coach in the league blew a 17 point lead to lose the CAA Championship. My God, what would you guys do on these boards...he would be skewered and cooked.

Yes people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are totally clueless.

You beat me to it.

Even the COY, who did have his team playing GREAT defense in the first half tonight, managed a slightly worse result than what Hofstra suffered two years ago.

Not so easy to win a CAA title, is it?

At least Hofstra's blown lead was "only" 12 pts before losing the CAA title game in OT.

I cannot imagine how much this board would lose its collective mind had HU blown a 17-point lead (the biggest comeback in CAA finals history, by the way) and lost in OT tonight after committing FIFTEEN (mostly careless) turnovers and allowing Chealey to score 23 after halftime. There would've been a march down Hempstead Tpke.

[Hofstra]

So the "best" coach in the league blew a 17 point lead to lose the CAA Championship. My God, what would you guys do on these boards...he would be skewered and cooked.

Yes people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are totally clueless.

So quick with names here. Have I ever said that Coen was the best coach in the league? Never. I don't know who the best coach in the league is. I just know, its not Joe.

Blowing a lead in a championship game is a lot different than bowing out in the first game of the teams tournament also. Northeastern has a right to be upset I would assume, but they got there at least. The loss will hurt them for sure. At the end of the day though, they made the championship.

Blowing our 12 point lead vs. UNCW a few years ago was upsetting, but that was an awesome ride. I stood there, in person, with you, and clapped and applauded our teams/schools performance. I was proud of that year. This year, I said weeks ago we were flawed, and wouldn't hoist a 'chip. I wanted to be wrong, but the writing was on the wall. We can revisit those threads. I don't understand such vitriol for someone disagreeing with your point on Joe though? I think defensively he is piss poor. Is that allowed? Do I think that this university will can him? Absolutely not. Im willing to give him the next year, does he deserve it? Probably, but I can understand others being upset. He needs to finally point an emphasis on coaching defense. Its a necessity. Wouldn't you agree? To call people clueless for disagreeing with you though? Thats bush league.

[Dooku25]

So the "best" coach in the league blew a 17 point lead to lose the CAA Championship. My God, what would you guys do on these boards...he would be skewered and cooked.

Yes people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are totally clueless.

With all due respect, I think you should slow down with the comments about people who you disagree with on these boards. I know your opinions only go one way. What will it take for you to say a bad word about the program? An 0-30 season? I still think you'd find some positives.

Also, HU should be begging for more of these so called "clueless" posters you speak of since our fan base is a joke. The people on these boards are some of the best fans we have. And I think there have been very good posts this week from all different angles and perspectives. I don't think anyone's posts have been clueless, far from it.

I for one have been watching the team very closely for 20 years. I know exactly what I'm watching game in and game out and I am confident in my views of the team's play and the way the staff coaches the games. So I don't think I'm uninformed, unreasonable or clueless.

I don't mean to start a conflict, I just think we need to hear everyone out because we all love the team here and we all want them to win.

[joeg1]

Once again Wags, thanks for your thoughtful and well informed posts...sorely needed around here.

Please give it a rest...Coach deserves to be criticized...he did a crappy job. Too bad he was NEVER called out ONCE at any of the pressers following any one of the many debacles. Instead, he gets sunshine blown up his arse and questions about "feelings" and "confidence". I would have loved to hear someone ask him why his teams play such bad defense. Or why they consistently blow large leads at home? No wonder why he loves his job so much- no accountability. Would love to see a Newsday (or anywhere for that matter) piece about not getting it done and being too stubborn/arrogant/comfortable to change. Instead its a big love-in. I swear- at least change some of the staff. Do something different, because unless you like being not good enough, Joe needs to change or be changed. The new AD will not fire him, but at least put him on the hot seat. Sheesh!!!

[Flying Dutchmen]

I cannot imagine how much this board would lose its collective mind had HU blown a 17-point lead (the biggest comeback in CAA finals history, by the way) and lost in OT tonight after committing FIFTEEN (mostly careless) turnovers and allowing Chealey to score 23 after halftime. There would've been a march down Hempstead Tpke.

LOL

I just imagine 10 angry people picketing, getting hit by slush kicked up by car tires.

In all honesty though, "Hofstra" and other posters who've had enough with Joe are not clueless by any means, they're just tired of our coach screaming at the refs instead of coaching, and not playing any defense for largely 5 straight years. I respect that opinion.

They're more than likely correct too, there's just so much evidence saying that we're going to be a sieve again.

I just personally like Joe though, I think he's a great offensive coach, and he's done a solid job with a program that had a mandate to suck after the Welsh/Mo debacle years.

I have to keep emphasizing this; I can't think of any legitimate reasons why we should be the class of the CAA, which we are all implicitly demanding. Our facilities are probably top half, academics aren't bad, campus, meh, in-game atmosphere, lol. Most importantly, the administration doesn't care too much, and we have a small booster base.

Coaching candidates aren't dumb, they want a program with big upside and support from the university. Also, they're going to wonder why a HC got fired after a 3rd place finish in the CAA when we haven't been to the tournament in 17 years. If we can Joe after this season, a prospective HC isn't going to say, "Wow, Hofstra has a high standard of success!" They're going to say: "Wow, what a delusional place, good luck beating Manhattan next year."

I think Joe deserves to see next year out, if we bottom out, and suck defensively again, he may straight up just retire. Next year will be his deepest returning team with 4 starters coming back and Coburn coming off RS. If we get over the top, everyone will be glad we let the guy who righted the ship, take us to the promised land.

[Polito]

I think proper perspective should be added here that NU and Cohen were picked sixth. SIXTH. Did not have the POY. Did not have tremendous depth. Didn't even have their star until this year. And nearly won a championship and went dancing - which would've been their 2nd trip in the CAA. By my count HU has zip.

Not sure what the issue is with the JM / Cohen comparison - is it against the law to do or something? These are 2 coaches vying for the CAA crown, seems pretty fair and appropriate to me.

Wags, in regards to recruiting the proper D talent, we are in full agreement - it comes down to the coaches valuing it enough to recruit it. And as I and others have said, that is clearly on the coaches to do.

So HUSID, I'm not sure where the hatred is coming from.

I have to say, I think I've been quite calm, respectful, and at least mostly fair in offering my perspective (for once!). Heck I barely posted immediately after the game in order to collect my thoughts. Matter of fact, I don't believe I have once flatly stated after this loss that JM should be fired - if I have, find me the post and I will make it right.

I know he won't be, and I actually don't think the new AD should do so in their first year. I said they should take 1 year to get grounded, and then have the power vision and courage to make whatever change is necessary to elevate the program.

What I have said is that I want CHANGE, and the fans and program deserve it. I and others have even offered alternatives, such as a staff change, or getting some Defensive clinic work in for the staff in the offseason. The bottom line is something needs to change, because this isn't acceptable. And that's a pretty fair take after getting bounced in game 1 once again due to the same lingering 5 year long issue. Not sure how this isn't ok to question...

We all understand you have a relationship with U and/or JM - perfectly ok, and fine to support him, your insight is highly valued here. But my goodness man, ease up on the bias - it's actually starting to make me question you. At least have the same respect for the program and offer a fair assessment instead of good ol boy golf/dinner buddy shill talk that puts the HC above the program.

I'm sorry to say this my friend, I don't think that's who you are, at least I hope not, but I just can't get on board with that kind of sunshine pumping, extreme passive aggressive, total bias posting. You have the right to do it, I just don't agree with it, and feel it does absolutely nothing to help this program - quite the opposite IMO.

Nothing, I repeat nothing can or should come before the program. I stand by that 100%. And that is 100% where my loyalty lies. How's that for speaking in 'absolutes'? And I would hope it's the same for all.

[Wags]

Once again Wags, thanks for your thoughtful and well informed posts...sorely needed around here.

Please give it a rest...Coach deserves to be criticized...he did a crappy job. Too bad he was NEVER called out ONCE at any of the pressers following any one of the many debacles. Instead, he gets sunshine blown up his arse and questions about "feelings" and "confidence". I would have loved to hear someone ask him why his teams play such bad defense. Or why they consistently blow large leads at home? No wonder why he loves his job so much- no accountability. Would love to see a Newsday (or anywhere for that matter) piece about not getting it done and being too stubborn/arrogant/comfortable to change. Instead its a big love-in. I swear- at least change some of the staff. Do something different, because unless you like being not good enough, Joe needs to change or be changed. The new AD will not fire him, but at least put him on the hot seat. Sheesh!!!

Well, let's see... rather than going to the opposite extreme, let's find the truth, in the middle. Just one example:

Joe, after the 89-76 Elon loss at home:
"That's a team that you have to defend, and we defended very poorly. Whether it's the game plan or the execution of the game plan defensively, personnel, all of the above, we didn't defend well enough... it's not what you say, it's what's being heard, and we've got to get these guys to listen better... each guy's got to be accountable... there were certain actions that they did, that we walked them through, talked about defending them, they just didn't execute."

Not sure what you were listening to, but that sounds like accountability. It also sounds like the players aren't executing what they were properly prepared for. And the next time they played Elon, they allowed a season-low 48 points. After that game, the question was:
"You guys were switching up defense almost on every possession, between man and zone. Was that the game plan coming in?"
Joe: "You've got to give Coach Farrelly a lot of credit here. He did the scouting report. He did a fabulous job. He nailed it, he absolutely nailed it."

Joe didn't take any of the credit himself for their best defensive game of the season and the comments above shed light that when the players and Joe's assistants do their parts effectively, it makes a big difference. That's why the players play and that's why you have a staff to help the head coach. That said, I've been among the first here to say the overall mindset needs to change. Joe believes in playing up-tempo and scoring a lot, and as long as he does, he's not overly concerned with giving up more points because of that. And I think that needs to change. Championship teams want to get good shots every time down and also want to make a stop every time at the other end. That's where the mindset should be. But to say reporters are merely blowing sunshine and that there's no accountability whatsoever just isn't the case. That's unfairly going to the opposite extreme of what you were responding to.

[Polito]

Good insight Wags - two things:

1) "...they just didn't execute."

Nope, this is not accountability - it's blaming your 20 year old players. I do not agree with this in any way shape or form. A top teacher does not say 'screw it! these damn kids just won't learn from me!' - at least, if they do they won't be teaching long. This is what leaders get PAID to do. When it goes wrong, it is ALWAYS on the leader - A L W A Y S.

2) On the opposite end, he displays a great leadership trait in passing on the credit of a great success to someone else on his team. Kudos on this one to JM. THAT'S leadership. So, looks like this is just like his coaching, halfway good (O) halfway bad (D).

That's a net wash in my world. As you noted, need better to be true champions and send this program dancing.

[Wags]

I think proper perspective should be added here that NU and Cohen were picked sixth. SIXTH.

I wouldn't put too much stock into this. Countless times, teams picked around that spot have made the finals or won it. And teams picked higher have not panned out as the media predicted. The media is often very wrong on certain teams. The CAA media likely hadn't seen Pusica play in San Diego. Had they, they might've picked NU a lot higher. And if we do play that game:
Then Hofstra was picked 4th and finished 3rd.
Towson was picked 2nd and finished 5th.
Elon was picked 3rd and finished 10th.

Did not have the POY.

This is really splitting hairs. In my mind, Pusica was the POY and many media members voted that way. Let's not pretend NU didn't have at least a POY-caliber player.

Did not have tremendous depth.

Again, wouldn't put too much stock in this. A lot guys on each team played 40+ mnutes tonight. Each team basically only played seven guys in an OT title game. Delaware basically played only their five starters when they won it all four years ago.

Didn't even have their star until this year.

I'll give Coen some credit for integrating Pusica so smoothly and easily, but I think after experience overseas and two years at San Diego, he'd have done that anyway and anywhere.

And nearly won a championship and went dancing - which would've been their 2nd trip in the CAA. By my count HU has zip.

C'mon, man, lol. You can't have this one both ways to selectively fit your argument.
You can't count one title and one blown 17-point lead & losing in OT as nearly winning two titles, then count Hofstra's blown 12-point lead & losing in OT as "zip."

It's either:
- 1 NU title and none for HU or
- Nearly two for NU and nearly 1 for HU

Wags, in regards to recruiting the proper D talent, we are in full agreement - it comes down to the coaches valuing it enough to recruit it.

The perfect way you put this is exactly the issue. You won't recruit the skillsets you don't value. There isn't a single defense-first player on the entire roster. Joe thought Rok was, but that's debatable. Certainly, he was a rebound-first guy, and that's part of defense. Aside from that, everyone else on the roster is offense-first. That's a problem.

[Wags]

Good insight Wags - two things:

1) "...they just didn't execute."

Nope, this is not accountability - it's blaming your 20 year old players. I do not agree with this in any way shape or form. A top teacher does not say 'screw it! these damn kids just won't learn from me!' - at least, if they do they won't be teaching long. This is what leaders get PAID to do. When it goes wrong, it is ALWAYS on the leader - A L W A Y S.

I hear you on this, but...
A) Coaches don't play. You can prepare your team, but if they're not executing what you've taught them, you only have so much control. That's not absolving Joe and his staff. But it shouldn't incriminate them either. I don't know the level to which the players are or are not being taught the right thing and to which they're not executing it. I don't think any of us do. But we can only go by what we hear: Joe's saying at least about that particular game (the Eon loss), the players were prepared for what they saw but simply didn't execute. And the next time against Elon, Joe's assistant scouted more effectively, they made a change in the game plan (one I like, because I think you SHOULD throw different looks and confuse an offense), and most of all, the players executed that game plan with the EFFORT needed, and it was a tremendous difference (from 89 pts allowed in a 13-point home loss to 48 pt allowed in a 19-point road win against the same team).

B) You ignored the major part of that quote where Joe didn't simply blame his players, but included the himself and the staff as being culpable. Again, he said:
"Whether it's the game plan or the execution of the game plan defensively, personnel, all of the above, we didn't defend well enough."

[Wags]

Wow, NU fans are even less patient that HU fans.

Well, "fan" isn't short for "fanatic" for nothing.

https://twitter.com/brodskyme/status/971233157612756992

[triplec2195]

So the "best" coach in the league blew a 17 point lead to lose the CAA Championship. My God, what would you guys do on these boards...he would be skewered and cooked.

Yes people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are totally clueless.

A lot of pot stirring going on and getting personal. I think I once said somebody here was delusional just everybody getting passionate about a program they love and being very disappointed in the final outcome. Where was this game being broadcast from?? I couldn't find it on any channels on my T.V. I guess I'm the clueless one LOL but I would've liked to have seen the swings in this one. I'm not going to cast aspersions but someone recently said that Joe Chealey wasn't as important to COC of late and won't be that missed next year!! People like to talk about Pusica and somehow downplay what Justin has done this year but just as difficult as it is to win the championship in the CAA it's no easy feat to win POY in this conference. We should embrace Justin for what he has accomplished and not look to second guess the voting process. It's all about opinions and at the end of the day nobody should be badgered for voicing theirs.
Not to beat a dead horse but there's nobody here I'm assuming that wouldn't agree that CHANGE is in the wind and warranted after this last debacle where everybody differs is what that change should be. Lots of good points being made and a ton of viewpoints going every which way. I see people making reference to Coburn next year and I know very little about him or what kind of skill set he possesses. I had posted what I found on ESPN regarding his strengths some time ago. Does anyone have any info. on whether they think he can help us defensively? He does have good size for a guard.
Since I have only been posting for a few months and a lot of you guys know each other I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. Maybe someday someone will apprise me of the pecking order here meaning who has ties to the program and what those ties are? I just would like to know where people are coming from in their viewpoints as I'm strictly a fan since the mid 1970's having graduated in 1972. Now having said that just want to say I enjoy all the back and forth banter and happy to be part of this forum. Keep up the good work guys and keep the viewpoints coming because if nobody gave a s.... there would be major crickets going on here!!

[Wags]

People like to talk about Pusica and somehow downplay what Justin has done this year but just as difficult as it is to win the championship in the CAA it's no easy feat to win POY in this conference. We should embrace Justin for what he has accomplished and not look to second guess the voting process.

I don't think anyone here is downplaying what Justin did at all. I just think it's splitting hairs between two outstanding seasons. To me, Pusica was ever so slightly the best player in the conference this year (just my opinion, doesn't mean he was, and officially, JWF was, obviously).

The argument was that HU didn't get it done with the POY and that NU didn't have the POY. The counterargument was that NU still had POY-caliber player and did the same thing in the finals that HU did two years ago, and that as NU showed last night, it's not as easy to win a CAA title as some here would sometimes make it seem. In fact, what NU did was even worse. Not only was there lead larger (17 points vs. 12), but unlike Hofstra, Northeastern actually does (plays defense) the very thing everyone here is (rightfully) bashing Hofstra for (not playing defense), and they STILL lost. That's all that was meant in comparing Pusica vs. JWF in the POY voting; it wasn't meant to disparage JWF's stellar season at all.

enjoy all the back and forth banter and happy to be part of this forum. Keep up the good work guys and keep the viewpoints coming because if nobody gave a s.... there would be major crickets going on here!!

I do too, and although the exchanges may get heated at times, they always come from the same good place - that people simply want this program to succeed. As you said, apathy would be far worse!

[HUSID74]

Polito wrote "So HUSID, I'm not sure where the hatred is coming from." Where do you get "HATRED" from....once again dealing in absolutes.

I've simply stated that there's a great deal of typical fan over-reaction for what is going on with this program.

Hear a lot of noise with no constructive insights or proposed action.

Yes, I was extremely disappointed in our performance on Sunday night, as you know I bleed blue and gold. This was a regression back to some of our performances earlier in the season

No I don't believe we have elite talent vs. some other teams in this conference; that's become clear over the course of the season and watching the two heavyweights battle it out last night.

No, I will not characterize this season as a failure as you have stated; we were picked fourth in the League, finished third and have found/developed a potential superstar in POY Justin Wright Foreman in the process of winning 19 games and finishing the regular season winning 6 of 7 in a tough league.

You keep referring to five years; but WHAT does that mean??? In Joe's third year he took a team that had won 10 games two years earlier and was an outright TRAIN WRECK prior to his arrival, and won the CAA Championship and getting with a missed free throw or two from our FIRST EVER CAA championship.

Next year we fell back after LOSING said CAA POY, and his two wingmen, understandable.

This year we bounced back to what I'll call a GOOD year and we are set up for even better next year.

To all, please look at the FACTS: Yes we are all disappointed in the loss to UNCW, no excuses for that one...but PLEASE look at the overall picture and where this program currently stands.

Sure there is work to be done and improvements to be made...do you honestly think this staff is not aware of that?????

Nuff said...

[Wags]

Polito wrote "So HUSID, I'm not sure where the hatred is coming from." Where do you get "HATRED" from....once again dealing in absolutes.

I've simply stated that there's a great deal of typical fan over-reaction for what is going on with this program.

Hear a lot of noise with no constructive insights or proposed action.

Yes, I was extremely disappointed in our performance on Sunday night, as you know I bleed blue and gold. This was a regression back to some of our performances earlier in the season

No I don't believe we have elite talent vs. some other teams in this conference; that's become clear over the course of the season and watching the two heavyweights battle it out last night.

No, I will not characterize this season as a failure as you have stated; we were picked fourth in the League, finished third and have found/developed a potential superstar in POY Justin Wright Foreman in the process of winning 19 games and finishing the regular season winning 6 of 7 in a tough league.

You keep referring to five years; but WHAT does that mean??? In Joe's third year he took a team that had won 10 games two years earlier and was an outright TRAIN WRECK prior to his arrival, and won the CAA Championship and getting with a missed free throw or two from our FIRST EVER CAA championship.

Next year we fell back after LOSING said CAA POY, and his two wingmen, understandable.

This year we bounced back to what I'll call a GOOD year and we are set up for even better next year.

To all, please look at the FACTS: Yes we are all disappointed in the loss to UNCW, no excuses for that one...but PLEASE look at the overall picture and where this program currently stands.

Sure there is work to be done and improvements to be made...do you honestly think this staff is not aware of that?????

Nuff said...

Agree with all of the above, but what will the staff to do make those improvements defensively? For me, it's not so much the results. Due to everything you said above, I'm not happy with, but okay with the results (so far). But it's the APPROACH. When does this team ACTIVELY and CONSISTENTLY make a defensive mindset and identity more of a priority over the "eh, defense isn't THAT important, we'll just outscore whoever we play" approach? That is what needs to change. That is where they lost the game to UNCW on Sunday night. That's where they lost very tight, high-scoring games at W&M and to home at Charleston that cost them a 14-4 record and a 3-way share of the regular season crown. When does the team's style and identity change to the mindset it needs to in order to not come up a little short?