CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

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Wags
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Wags »

triplec2195 wrote:
Wags wrote:
HofstraMathew wrote:I am sure every Hofstra fan would sign up for being a 15 seed if it means being in the NCAA tournament but man would that be ironic that we get a worse seed compared to our AEast days.
WOULD be ironic, lol. And would be crazy considering the AE is 23rd this year, and the CAA 12th.

The bulk of your schedule is against your own league and aside from a big game here or there (win or lose), most of the OOC doesn't usually move the needle much.

If you emerge as the rep from the 12th-best league instead of the 23rd-best league, I think greater preference should be given to that. Especially in Charleston's case, if in fact they're 27-6 with 15 straight wins going in. Yet, the consensus on Vermont (13 seed) is higher than Charleston (14 seed). Vermont had its own 15-game streak, which just ended (but again, against a significantly weaker conference) and they really didn't do much OOC. They lost a very close opener at Kentucky, but it was still a loss, they had a solid win against Bradley and in their lone game against CAA competition, they lost at Northeastern. Nothing else of note OOC. Based on that, how is the rep from the 23rd-best league in the nation more deserving of a higher seed than that of the 12th-best league in the nation? I just don't see it.
The NCAA seems to run it's own independent business and makes it's own rules and pisses a lot of people off. I remember Tom Pecora bemoaning decisions the NCAA made screwing us especially the year we weren't selected as an at large team to the NCAAT. While it's true that the team(George Mason) that went to the tourney was in the final four that's 20/20 hindsight. There was another year that Pecora was complaining big time about a kid from Australia that was declared ineligible for some petty b.s. and he stated openly that big schools get away with big time violations while a mid major like Hofstra gets slapped around for small innocuous stuff. It certainly doesn't make sense for us as a conference to be a lower seed then some of these bottom echelon conferences and don't know how they justify this stuff other then they have no one to answer to. Last year UNCW was a 12th seed and drew a 5 seed. These crazy ass seedings & resulting pairings makes it near impossible from a school coming out of the CAA to advance to the second round.
Yup, the Brad Kelleher saga. Pecora was right. That was a complete joke. As having a Mason AD on the selection committee not recusing himself from Mason's selection over Hofstra (which we all recall, beat Mason twice in 11 days, including in the CAA semis) before Mason was selected over Hofstra. At the very least, Air Force and Utah State, with RPIs in the 60-70 range shouldn't have been selected over Hofstra (which was at around 30). And I think Missouri State was even worse, I think left out in the low/mid-20s or so. Ever since, I've paid no attention to RPI. It means absolutely nothing. They'll select who they want to select and place them where they want to place them. It would take the fun out of it, but sometimes I think a computer selecting and seeding the teams automatically, based on the best possible info. being inputted might be best, and might also yield the most competitive tournaments.
Wags
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Wags »

triplec2195 wrote:Wags when u say reward Charleston for two back to back strong seasons were u conceding the CAA tourney to them or referring to them as an at large team on the bubble after they lose to us?????
I mean as in the scenario I laid out, with Charleston winning their final two regular season games and winning the CAA tourney, to go into the NCAAT at 27-6, on a 15-game winning streak. Like I said, I'm not hoping for that, b/c of what that would mean for HU, but I was putting that out there b/c if they were to do that, I think a 14 seed, as currently projected by most for them, is a slap in the face to them and to the CAA.

If they lost in the finals, they would be NIT bound (even at 26-7).

(sorry for taking this thread on a different tangent by the way; still sort of related but has gone away now from how tiebreakers could affect CAA seeding).
triplec2195
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by triplec2195 »

Wags wrote:
triplec2195 wrote:Wags when u say reward Charleston for two back to back strong seasons were u conceding the CAA tourney to them or referring to them as an at large team on the bubble after they lose to us?????
I mean as in the scenario I laid out, with Charleston winning their final two regular season games and winning the CAA tourney, to go into the NCAAT at 27-6, on a 15-game winning streak (like I said, I'm not hoping for that, b/c of what that would mean for HU, but was putting that out there b/c if they were to do that, I think a 14 seed, as currently projected by most for them, is a slap in the face to them and to the CAA).

If they lost in the finals, they would be NIT bound (even at 26-7).
Gotcha agree!!
EvanJ
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by EvanJ »

Northeastern won and clinched the 2 seed. Hofstra remained 1 game ahead of William & Mary and needs 1 of these to get the 3 seed:

1. A win
2. A William & Mary loss hosting Charleston
3. A Northeastern win at Elon

In case 3, Northeastern and Charleston would tie for first (if Northeastern and Charleston win to give Charleston sole first it would be part of Case 2). Hofstra would be 0-2 vs. Charleston and 1-1 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. William & Mary would be 1-1 vs. Charleston and 0-2 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. Hofstra would win the tiebreaker over William & Mary due to a better record against Towson, 1-1 for Hofstra (if Hofstra sweeps Towson it would be part of Case 1) and 0-2 for William & Mary. If Northeastern wins at Elon, Towson gets sole fifth.

William & Mary plays at 2:00 P.M., so we could clinch the 3 seed before we start. If they win and we lose, we can watch online Northeastern at Elon at 7:00 P.M.
cactus
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by cactus »

EvanJ wrote:Northeastern won and clinched the 2 seed. Hofstra remained 1 game ahead of William & Mary and needs 1 of these to get the 3 seed:

1. A win
2. A William & Mary loss hosting Charleston
3. A Northeastern win at Elon

In case 3, Northeastern and Charleston would tie for first (if Northeastern and Charleston win to give Charleston sole first it would be part of Case 2). Hofstra would be 0-2 vs. Charleston and 1-1 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. William & Mary would be 1-1 vs. Charleston and 0-2 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. Hofstra would win the tiebreaker over William & Mary due to a better record against Towson, 1-1 for Hofstra (if Hofstra sweeps Towson it would be part of Case 1) and 0-2 for William & Mary. If Northeastern wins at Elon, Towson gets sole fifth.

William & Mary plays at 2:00 P.M., so we could clinch the 3 seed before we start. If they win and we lose, we can watch online Northeastern at Elon at 7:00 P.M.

great info as always evan
triplec2195
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by triplec2195 »

EvanJ wrote:Northeastern won and clinched the 2 seed. Hofstra remained 1 game ahead of William & Mary and needs 1 of these to get the 3 seed:

1. A win
2. A William & Mary loss hosting Charleston
3. A Northeastern win at Elon

In case 3, Northeastern and Charleston would tie for first (if Northeastern and Charleston win to give Charleston sole first it would be part of Case 2). Hofstra would be 0-2 vs. Charleston and 1-1 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. William & Mary would be 1-1 vs. Charleston and 0-2 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. Hofstra would win the tiebreaker over William & Mary due to a better record against Towson, 1-1 for Hofstra (if Hofstra sweeps Towson it would be part of Case 1) and 0-2 for William & Mary. If Northeastern wins at Elon, Towson gets sole fifth.

William & Mary plays at 2:00 P.M., so we could clinch the 3 seed before we start. If they win and we lose, we can watch online Northeastern at Elon at 7:00 P.M.
Thanks Evan so this makes sense in case 3 in order for NE and COC to end in a tie NE beats Elon and W&M beats COC otherwise COC would still have one less loss then NE right??
EvanJ
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by EvanJ »

triplec2195 wrote:
EvanJ wrote:Northeastern won and clinched the 2 seed. Hofstra remained 1 game ahead of William & Mary and needs 1 of these to get the 3 seed:

1. A win
2. A William & Mary loss hosting Charleston
3. A Northeastern win at Elon

In case 3, Northeastern and Charleston would tie for first (if Northeastern and Charleston win to give Charleston sole first it would be part of Case 2). Hofstra would be 0-2 vs. Charleston and 1-1 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. William & Mary would be 1-1 vs. Charleston and 0-2 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. Hofstra would win the tiebreaker over William & Mary due to a better record against Towson, 1-1 for Hofstra (if Hofstra sweeps Towson it would be part of Case 1) and 0-2 for William & Mary. If Northeastern wins at Elon, Towson gets sole fifth.

William & Mary plays at 2:00 P.M., so we could clinch the 3 seed before we start. If they win and we lose, we can watch online Northeastern at Elon at 7:00 P.M.
Thanks Evan so this makes sense in case 3 in order for NE and COC to end in a tie NE beats Elon and W&M beats COC otherwise COC would still have one less loss then NE right??
If COC wins, we finish ahead of W&M without a tiebreaker.
joeg1
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by joeg1 »

EvanJ wrote:
triplec2195 wrote:
EvanJ wrote:Northeastern won and clinched the 2 seed. Hofstra remained 1 game ahead of William & Mary and needs 1 of these to get the 3 seed:

1. A win
2. A William & Mary loss hosting Charleston
3. A Northeastern win at Elon

In case 3, Northeastern and Charleston would tie for first (if Northeastern and Charleston win to give Charleston sole first it would be part of Case 2). Hofstra would be 0-2 vs. Charleston and 1-1 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. William & Mary would be 1-1 vs. Charleston and 0-2 vs. Northeastern for a total of 1-3. Hofstra would win the tiebreaker over William & Mary due to a better record against Towson, 1-1 for Hofstra (if Hofstra sweeps Towson it would be part of Case 1) and 0-2 for William & Mary. If Northeastern wins at Elon, Towson gets sole fifth.

William & Mary plays at 2:00 P.M., so we could clinch the 3 seed before we start. If they win and we lose, we can watch online Northeastern at Elon at 7:00 P.M.
Thanks Evan so this makes sense in case 3 in order for NE and COC to end in a tie NE beats Elon and W&M beats COC otherwise COC would still have one less loss then NE right??
If COC wins, we finish ahead of W&M without a tiebreaker.
Facinating

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Wags
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Wags »

The top 6 are set as of tonight (Sat 2/24):

[1] Charleston (14-4)
[2] Northeastern (14-4)
[3] Hofstra (12-6)
[4] William & Mary (11-7)
[5] Towson (8-10)
[6] UNCW (7-11) -- already clinched even if Elon finishes 7-11 (swept Elon)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If JMU wins at Elon:

[7] Delaware (6-12) -- 4-2 vs. teams in this group
[8] Drexel (6-12) -- 3-3 vs. teams in this group + a win over Charleston
[9] JMU (6-12) -- 3-3 vs. teams in this group
[10] Elon (6-12) -- 2-4 vs. teams in this group (funny, they could've jumped to 6th and can now finish in last)

If JMU loses at Elon:

[7] Elon (7-11)
[8] Drexel (6-12) -- split with Delaware, but that win over Charleston would be the difference
[9] Delaware (6-12)
[10] JMU (5-13)
cactus
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by cactus »

so hofstra gets uncw and then most likely northeastern and charleston. that's quite the gauntlet to run.

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EvanJ
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by EvanJ »

I wonder if a team has ever gone from 4-2 to last in CAA games.
Dooku25
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Dooku25 »

cactus wrote:so hofstra gets uncw and then most likely northeastern and charleston. that's quite the gauntlet to run.

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Not to get ahead of ourselves, but if chalk prevails in the quarters, then playing Northeastern in the semis will truly be a "neutral" court game in every sense of the word. NE won't have any fans down there either. It won't be an easy game, but I much rather be playing them over a southern school.

On the other side of the bracket, it would be W&M v. COC. W&M beat COC in OT 114-104 yesterday. I know COC didn't really need the game, but I think W&M will give COC all they can handle in the tournament. Both semifinals would be great games IMO. Not really seeing any advantages for anyone. I like our chances.
HUclassof19
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by HUclassof19 »

i like our matchups if we are to advance. we wont overlook anyone bc first two games will be against teams that beat us this season. no game will be easy obviously. but im cool with our match ups.
Wags
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Wags »

cactus wrote:so hofstra gets uncw and then most likely northeastern and charleston. that's quite the gauntlet to run.

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Often have to be the beat the best to be the best. Wouldn't want it handed to HU anyway. More satisfying to earn it.

It's wide open this year. After seeing HU and following the conference all season, I really believe HU's chances are on sticking with its strengths and doing what it does well. If they do that for three straight games, I think they're cutting the nets on 3/6. It wasn't always that way, especially with VCU, Mason, ODU, UNCW, when even if they did what they needed to, it wasn't going to be enough. I think the difference this year is, they only way they don't win it all is if they fall back into bad habits (not sharing the ball enough, bad shot selection, losing focus on defense), the things we saw over the first half of the CAA schedule. They improved on that in the second half, and it resulted in a 7-2 record with a 4-0 finish. The D was more consistent, and Rok, Eli and Buie all stepped up more to help JWF. Throw in the abilities of Ray and Stafford, and even Sabety to help a bit, and they have the firepower (especially offensively) to win it all. Just have to play enough D for three games. This year, it's not about the other teams. It's on them and sticking with what they do best. I think if they do that, it'll be enough to get it done this year.
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Jojogunne
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Jojogunne »

Hofstra and UNCW are the last two teams to play, at 8:30 Sunday night:

http://caasports.com/tournaments/?id=96
Wags
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Wags »

Jojogunne wrote:Hofstra and UNCW are the last two teams to play, at 8:30 Sunday night:

http://caasports.com/tournaments/?id=96
Thanks, Jojo.

I like it from our standpoint. Can enjoy all of the other games in tournament the whole day before concluding with Hofstra. It's like a bunch of good appetizers before looking forward to the main course to wrap up the long day of hoops.

More importantly, I think it's good for the team. If it's chalk in the tourney until that point, Hofstra should feel the need to keep up with all of other other top seeds. If however, an upset or more happen, it's good if they occur before Hofstra plays because in that case, it should be easier for coaching staff to get the players' attention in terms of avoiding any overconfidence (they shouldn't have that anyway with how unpredictable the CAA can be, and especially with winning and losing to UNCW by 20 this season, but that would just be an added way to guard against overconfidence, by playing last, should any other upsets happen).

This also means all late games for Hofstra for as long as they stay in the tourney. Good for fans who can't make the trip and are working on Monday (no need to rush home to catch a 6 pm semifinal tip on TV). Playing on Sunday at 8:30 pm also means that with a win, they'll play again at 8:30 pm on Monday and if they make it, the title game on Tuesday at 7 pm.
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Flying Dutchmen
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Flying Dutchmen »

Dooku25 wrote:Not to get ahead of ourselves, but if chalk prevails in the quarters, then playing Northeastern in the semis will truly be a "neutral" court game in every sense of the word. NE won't have any fans down there either. It won't be an easy game, but I much rather be playing them over a southern school.
I completely agree, it was very important to get the #3 seed. I like the matchup against UNCW better than Towson, although UNCW will bring some people. I just think UNCW is a very poor defensive team. If we attack the paint with JWF/Eli and work the pick and roll with Rok, we will get them in foul trouble and it will open up the perimeter shot, which they do not defend well. I know they smoked us just two weeks ago, but I thought that was our worst effort of the year, plus Buie and JWF got banged up in the game. We looked awesome against UNCW at home, perhaps our most dominant effort of the year, I feel good about our chances in the rubber match.

If we are fortunate enough to advance to the semis against Northeastern, we won't have to contest with the home crowd. Northeastern is real good, they're playing their best ball, and I think they're our toughest test in the league. I just feel like it's probably in our advantage to face them on the second day because I think there is a fatigue factor by game three, they have a size advantage over us, and they've shown an ability to continue to be effective inside the arc if the 3 ball isn't falling.

I also think Northeastern's a smug team that believes they're better than us, and they will slightly look ahead of us on Monday, we can catch them off guard. Plus we're a more explosive team, and we protect the ball much better, I think it will be an awesome game that ends as a W for us.

I fully expect to see Charleston in the final, but Nick Harris, their starting center, has a foot injury, and missed Saturday's game. I don't know his status for the tournament. If he's out, it's a serious blow.
Wags
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Wags »

Flying Dutchmen wrote: I like the matchup against UNCW better than Towson, although UNCW will bring some people. I just think UNCW is a very poor defensive team. If we attack the paint with JWF/Eli and work the pick and roll with Rok, we will get them in foul trouble and it will open up the perimeter shot, which they do not defend well. I know they smoked us just two weeks ago, but I thought that was our worst effort of the year, plus Buie and JWF got banged up in the game. We looked awesome against UNCW at home, perhaps our most dominant effort of the year, I feel good about our chances in the rubber match.
Agree, Towson would be a tougher matchup. And because Towson is so physical, and UNCW is more of a finesse team, it helps a lot in a 3-games-in-3-days scenario to avoid playing a physical team like Towson. Even if you beat them, they can take enough out of you physically that it can hurt you for the next round or the round after. So no worry with that. That's why Saturday's win over Towson and avoiding a rematch with them was so important.

Just a note of caution on UNCW though: a big reason Joe and the team felt there was such a difference in the two games with UNCW was that UNCW had a week off to rest and prepare for the one at home. Granted, Hofstra didn't have the same and had to travel, but they did have four days off, so they shouldn't have been too fatigued. Just hoping that with another long layoff for UNCW before next Sunday night, that HU doesn't see the UNCW team that beat HU by 20 rather than the one that lost to HU by 20.
Flying Dutchmen wrote: I also think Northeastern's a smug team that believes they're better than us, and they will slightly look ahead of us on Monday, we can catch them off guard.
I'm not sure where this comes from. I didn't really see that, but if you have your reasons, I'm sure they're not unfounded. Even still, Bill Coen is a pro who isn't the type of coach that would allow his team to overlook an opponent in a tough 2/3 game with a trip to the finals at stake. If this matchup happens, and HU wins, I think it'll be because HU will have earned it, playing the way they played for much of the second half of the CAA schedule, rather than getting a break b/c NU is overconfident and doesn't bring their A game.
HUSID74
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by HUSID74 »

Wags, sorry to correct you but in the last UNCW game we played on a Thursday night before playing them on Sat. They had a full week off to prepare for us....this time around both teams will have had the same amount of rest.
Wags
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Re: CAA Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

Post by Wags »

HUSID74 wrote:Wags, sorry to correct you but in the last UNCW game we played on a Thursday night before playing them on Sat. They had a full week off to prepare for us....this time around both teams will have had the same amount of rest.
Oh yeah, you're right. I was mixing up that game and the one at Elon, thinking the order of those two games was reversed that week.

But yeah, HU only had two days between winning at Elon and playing at UNCW.

So then, maybe this second long layoff for UNCW won't help then as much as it did last time because HU will have a lot more rest then they did before that 20-pt. loss at UNCW.

That was also Homecoming Night at UNCW, the only home game all season that the Seahawks filled every one of the 5,200 seats at Trask Coliseum. While Hofstra fans will be outnumbered by UNCW fans in Charleston, it certainly won't be anything like that.
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