Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P.M

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triplec2195
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by triplec2195 »

Cards wrote:
EvanJ wrote:
Polito wrote: HU has the clear best player in the conf (and it's not close IMO), a budding all-conf star, and a 1st teamer who's going to break DAVID ROBINSON'S CAA rebounding record, which is astounding.
1. A Northeastern fan though Pusica sealed Player of the Year, and I objected. I think JWF will win, but I think Pusica is better. Regardless of how good Charleston is, I will be mad if anybody other than JWF or Pusica wins. Pusica is good enough that Northeastern is in second without anybody else averaging more than 9.8. Pusica shoots better than JWF. He averages exactly 5 assists, which is over 50% more than JWF, with a better assist/turnover ratio. Pusica has a little more rebounds and steals. JWF is great, but I think it's okay to be picky about Player of the Year, and I think Pusica has less to be picky about.

2. I don't think Gustys will make the First Team. Wright-Foreman and Pusica lead their teams in scoring by a lot. Charleston has three stars, and I think at least one makes the first team. William & Mary gets a lot from all of their starters. Then there's Martin, Seibring, Daly, Mosley, Isabell, and Cacok. Every team has a very good player. Would you complain about a First Team of Wright-Foreman, Pusica, Chealey or Riller, Knight, and Cacok?
Evan - you make a good case for Pusica but i think the difference in scoring average puts JWF in the player of the year seat.
Regarding Rok - I think your correct, he does not make first team. Cacock is having tooo big of a year to not make him the "big" man on 1st team.
Regarding the entire first team - i agree with all your picks other than Knight. i would put Isabell on first team. Oddly enough, Isalbell gets almost as any rebounds per game as Knight, yet isabell clearly can take over a game on the offensive side - something that I don't think Knight can do.
Pusica is a very good player but is a PG so to compare his assists to JWF's is unfair. I think you need to compare apples to apples. JWF clearly is a much more of an offensive player then Pusica, plays more minutes has a better FT percentage, more steals and leads the league in three point shots made and without Justin IDK if we win any games. Maybe NE has trouble winning without Pusica? I think Justin is clearly the most exciting player in this league and has the resume to back it up.There's a case to be made for some players in this league and I would be upset if Justin doesn't win this easily.

As for first team CAA that's a very difficult decision and I tend to agree with you Evan that ROK is second team. His FT % would have helped his ppg if he could put it in the hole but I think Cacock wins this but still believe that ROK is a better rebounder. What about Brantley for 1st team a very good player that can score?
HUclassof19
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by HUclassof19 »

i think first team will be

jwf
riller
knight
cacok
pusica

im not sure if rok gets on 2nd team. easily third but not sure about second.

chealey
brantley
isabell
seibring
someone from wm? or another school
krood
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by krood »

HUclassof19 wrote:i think first team will be

jwf
riller
knight
cacok
pusica

im not sure if rok gets on 2nd team. easily third but not sure about second.

chealey
brantley
isabell
seibring
someone from wm? or another school
When do they vote on this? Pre- or Post- tournament? While I agree with the prognostics, it could be real motivator for Rok going into the tourney.
HUSID74
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by HUSID74 »

The awards are given pre tournament. If Rok even has a chance to break the Admiral's rebound record he should be on the first team.
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Flying Dutchmen
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Flying Dutchmen »

Wags wrote:They lost because Juan'ya happened to have the worst shooting game he could have (2/16) at the worst possible time after being a huge reason they got there in the first place. It happens (like Starks' 2/18 in Game 7 of the '94 finals).

Afterwards, Juna'ya said fatigue wasn't a factor at all, he was simply missing shots he'd normally make. Seemed that way. And even if you don't believe him on that, who else was taking a few of his minutes to give him some rest? And why did both Rok and Tanskley play so well in that game, despite it being the 3rd game in 3 days? Even on this year's deeper team, the minutes that are spread out are down the line (starting with the 4th guy), but not for primary go-to guy, hence JWF getting about the same minutes this year as Juan'ya got two years ago.

If Juan'ya goes even 3/16 or 4/16, no one is talking about the bench or minutes two years ago. They're talking about breaking the NCAAT drought. So if they're lucky enough to get back to the finals, minutes for JWF, Eli or Rok shouldn't be too much of a worry.
Juan'ya went 9-10 from the line, with 8 dimes, he had a decent game overall. Sure if he hits two more shots, maybe we win, who knows honestly. I thought DK struggled in that one more than anyone, some bad late TO and fouls, which was a shame because he played his ass off for us, way more than he should have been expected to do that season.

And that was the depth issue in a nutshell. We had nobody to put in to spell DK when he was struggling. Like you said, maybe if we had Nichols for the title game we get over the top.

Bringing it back to this season, at least now we have some backups who can play if players are struggling or are in foul trouble, so we don't get a situation like in '16 where a player gets hung out to dry in the biggest game in years.

The conversation a few years ago about limiting some minutes from Juan'ya was more about letting JWF/Walker get some burn, and maybe being less gassed at the end of games. This year, we're still getting led by JWF/EP/Rok, but at least there's some confidence if one of them goes down or gets in foul trouble, we can put in Ray/Radovic/Sabety. Hopefully Joel is coming back too, we have gotten conflicting reports from the assistant coaches regarding his hip and whether he will play again for us.
Wags
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Wags »

krood wrote:
HUclassof19 wrote:i think first team will be

jwf
riller
knight
cacok
pusica

im not sure if rok gets on 2nd team. easily third but not sure about second.

chealey
brantley
isabell
seibring
someone from wm? or another school
When do they vote on this? Pre- or Post- tournament? While I agree with the prognostics, it could be real motivator for Rok going into the tourney.
Hofstra has much bigger issues If Rok needs that to motivate him in the final CAA tourney of his career, when he has yet to go to an NCAA tourney. It would be a great source of pride if he gets it, but he should be as motivated as possible, regardless.
Wags
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Wags »

HUSID74 wrote:The awards are given pre tournament. If Rok even has a chance to break the Admiral's rebound record he should be on the first team.
We all know he can rebound. And he's 2nd overall in the CAA, and the same in both offensive and defensive rebounds. So that one's a given on the award resume.

10.4 ppg doesn't sound like much in terms of voting for these awards, but it's actually 30th in the CAA (besides obviously helping him average a double-double).

The one he doesn't get enough credit for is his FG%. Granted, it's all around the hoop, layups and dunks, but efficiency is efficiency. There are no style points for this, just how many points on how many shots. There's obviously no difference whether Gustys is scoring from three feet in, or if JWF is hitting jumpers just inside the arc. Voters may not see it that way, and might consider the difference in degree of difficulty, but two points are two points no matter how you get them, and Gustys leads the CAA with a 62.0 FG%. That should be weighed fairly heavily along with the rebounds when determining his worthiness for an award.

One thing that hurts him statistically is not cracking the top 15 in blocks. Looks bad for him in this category that he has two teammates, including his backup, averaging more blocks than him (Trueheart is tied for 7th in the CAA with 0.9 bpg; Sabety is tied for 9th with 0.8 bpg). That's where a player like Knight is more complete. Not only way above Rok (5th) in scoring (18.1) and only four spots below him in rebounding (6th; 7.4 ppg), but he's 2nd in blocks (2.1).
triplec2195
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by triplec2195 »

Wags wrote:
krood wrote:
HUclassof19 wrote:i think first team will be

jwf
riller
knight
cacok
pusica

im not sure if rok gets on 2nd team. easily third but not sure about second.

chealey
brantley
isabell
seibring
someone from wm? or another school
When do they vote on this? Pre- or Post- tournament? While I agree with the prognostics, it could be real motivator for Rok going into the tourney.
Hofstra has much bigger issues If Rok needs that to motivate him in the final CAA tourney of his career, when he has yet to go to an NCAA tourney. It would be a great source of pride if he gets it, but he should be as motivated as possible, regardless.
Yes Rok is in the moment and any loss ends his college career so motivation probably a moot issue. I agree that he plays his butt off in this tourney regardless of awards in the CAA!
EvanJ
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by EvanJ »

HUSID74 wrote: The awards are given pre tournament. If Rok even has a chance to break the Admiral's rebound record he should be on the first team.
Records aren't broken often enough to have a precedent of how they affect voting. Last season Cacok broke the CAA season field goal percentage record and was on the Third Team. In 2007-2008, UNCW's Vladimir Kuljanin broke the CAA season (now held by Cacok) and career field goal percentage records and was on the Second Team. Jerrelle Benimon broke the CAA career rebounds per game record and was Player of the Year in both of his CAA seasons.
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Polito »

fair enough on the 1st team, agree he likely does not belong there... I am a bit one tracked with the rebounding record, but there is no question he belongs all-conf, likely 2nd team.

Of course he has his limitations as all players do, but he's a double-double machine, is still one of the top bigs in the league, and is going to break an incredible record - granted, as Evan noted well, breaking records is an unknown in terms of voting, but this is a HUGE deal - this is The Admiral - this is a record I would wager most thought would be in place for many more years.

IF he turns in a stellar CAAT performance and helps lead HU to the champ game or better yet to cut nets, then that seals the deal for 2nd team minimum.

Going forward, HU needs a Knight - big mobile talented all-around. If those littles can land a guy like that, from a northeast prep no less, than HU damn sure better bring in a talent just the same.
Dooku25
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Dooku25 »

Wags wrote: They lost because Juan'ya happened to have the worst shooting game he could have (2/16) at the worst possible time after being a huge reason they got there in the first place. It happens (like Starks' 2/18 in Game 7 of the '94 finals).

Afterwards, Juna'ya said fatigue wasn't a factor at all, he was simply missing shots he'd normally make. Seemed that way. And even if you don't believe him on that, who else was taking a few of his minutes to give him some rest? And why did both Rok and Tanskley play so well in that game, despite it being the 3rd game in 3 days? Even on this year's deeper team, the minutes that are spread out are down the line (starting with the 4th guy), but not for primary go-to guy, hence JWF getting about the same minutes this year as Juan'ya got two years ago.

If Juan'ya goes even 3/16 or 4/16, no one is talking about the bench or minutes two years ago. They're talking about breaking the NCAAT drought. So if they're lucky enough to get back to the finals, minutes for JWF, Eli or Rok shouldn't be too much of a worry.
Athletes like Juan'ya Green would never make excuses about fatigue. But it was clear fatigue was a major factor. Not only did he shoot 2-16, but he ran an offense in the 2nd half that went over 10 minutes without scoring a basket. These guys were worn down big time. They battled of course, and still could have won, but fatigue was obviously a factor. If we had Nichols healthy, I think we win the title. Not only could he have given guys some rest, he would have also helped breaking that press. But when you lack depth, you can't have injuries. And the lack of depth burned us that year (it's always something)

This year, even though JWF is averaging 37+ minutes a game, I would think in tourney play, Joe will pick his spots to give him some rest over the 3 days. And we have the ability to do that with him and with all of our rotation players this year. BIG DIFFERENCE from 2016..
Wags
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Wags »

Polito wrote: Of course he has his limitations as all players do, but he's a double-double machine, is still one of the top bigs in the league, and is going to break an incredible record - granted, as Evan noted well, breaking records is an unknown in terms of voting, but this is a HUGE deal - this is The Admiral - this is a record I would wager most thought would be in place for many more years.
Until recently, we would have all thought the same. But with the way the game is evolving at all levels (including the :30 shot clock instead of :35 in college now), with more of an emphasis on offense than defense and teams playing offense at a faster pace, it all leads to more possessions, more shots and more chances for rebounds than before. So breaking Robinson's record was probably bound to happen sooner than later. But regardless, it was still going to take a great rebounder to do it, so nothing to take away from Rok. It's a tremendous accomplishment, one that I hope Rok can achieve in front of Hofstra fans on Senior Day, on Saturday, rather than down in Charleston. He needs a really big rebounding game at JMU (which is 9th in the CAA on it own glass, so maybe a chance there for some extra offensive boards) to make it possible. 36 in two games to tie, 37 to break. Towson (which leads the CAA with a +5.4 rebounding margin) might be the wrong team for Rok to be able to get the record against on Saturday. He only had 5 boards in just 25 minutes before fouling out in the win at Towson on 1/11. He had 18 boards in the OT win over JMU six nights earlier.
Polito wrote: IF he turns in a stellar CAAT performance and helps lead HU to the champ game or better yet to cut nets, then that seals the deal for 2nd team minimum.
This is why the voting should be done after the tourney, but it's done pre-tourney so this wouldn't have an effect on him making one of the All-CAA teams.

If this happens though, he'd be on the All-Tourney team at least.
triplec2195
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by triplec2195 »

Dooku25 wrote:
Wags wrote: They lost because Juan'ya happened to have the worst shooting game he could have (2/16) at the worst possible time after being a huge reason they got there in the first place. It happens (like Starks' 2/18 in Game 7 of the '94 finals).

Afterwards, Juna'ya said fatigue wasn't a factor at all, he was simply missing shots he'd normally make. Seemed that way. And even if you don't believe him on that, who else was taking a few of his minutes to give him some rest? And why did both Rok and Tanskley play so well in that game, despite it being the 3rd game in 3 days? Even on this year's deeper team, the minutes that are spread out are down the line (starting with the 4th guy), but not for primary go-to guy, hence JWF getting about the same minutes this year as Juan'ya got two years ago.

If Juan'ya goes even 3/16 or 4/16, no one is talking about the bench or minutes two years ago. They're talking about breaking the NCAAT drought. So if they're lucky enough to get back to the finals, minutes for JWF, Eli or Rok shouldn't be too much of a worry.
Athletes like Juan'ya Green would never make excuses about fatigue. But it was clear fatigue was a major factor. Not only did he shoot 2-16, but he ran an offense in the 2nd half that went over 10 minutes without scoring a basket. These guys were worn down big time. They battled of course, and still could have won, but fatigue was obviously a factor. If we had Nichols healthy, I think we win the title. Not only could he have given guys some rest, he would have also helped breaking that press. But when you lack depth, you can't have injuries. And the lack of depth burned us that year (it's always something)

This year, even though JWF is averaging 37+ minutes a game, I would think in tourney play, Joe will pick his spots to give him some rest over the 3 days. And we have the ability to do that with him and with all of our rotation players this year. BIG DIFFERENCE from 2016..
Thanks for the NO BRAINER comment BIG DIFFERENCE from 2016. There was no bench in 2016 I'll say it again!!
Wags
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Wags »

Dooku25 wrote: Athletes like Juan'ya Green would never make excuses about fatigue. But it was clear fatigue was a major factor. Not only did he shoot 2-16, but he ran an offense in the 2nd half that went over 10 minutes without scoring a basket. These guys were worn down big time. They battled of course, and still could have won, but fatigue was obviously a factor. If we had Nichols healthy, I think we win the title. Not only could he have given guys some rest, he would have also helped breaking that press. But when you lack depth, you can't have injuries. And the lack of depth burned us that year (it's always something)
I was courtside and I really didn't see anything that looked like tired legs the way he was shooting. Often, it's evident. He looked the same as always, just didn't make shots. No one said Starks had tired legs when he went 2/18 in Game 7, just that he couldn't buy a basket. That just happens sometimes. It's basketball. Rok and Tanskley played just as much and weren't fatigued. They both played great. Nichols would've helped a lot and I think they might've won with him, but no guarantee on that either. If we take the blue & gold glasses off for a minute, we'll realize how talented (for the CAA that year) and how well-coached that UNCW team was. They made their run (energized by a decidedly pro-UNCW crowd behind them) and pulled it out, like good teams do. It had a lot more to do with that than HU's fatigue.
Dooku25 wrote: This year, even though JWF is averaging 37+ minutes a game, I would think in tourney play, Joe will pick his spots to give him some rest over the 3 days.
The only place he might be able to do that is in the first game. If they win that (and they'd have to win that at least fairly easily), Joe can rest JWF. But I don't see an opportunity to do that thereafter. He will need JWF for every minute he can squeeze out of him to win what should be a very tough semifinal game (no matter who it's against) and even more so in the championship game (especially if it would be against Charleston). That means at least JWF's 37 minutes per game or more over the final two days (should they get that far).
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by daHUPride »

Dooku25 wrote:
Wags wrote: They lost because Juan'ya happened to have the worst shooting game he could have (2/16) at the worst possible time after being a huge reason they got there in the first place. It happens (like Starks' 2/18 in Game 7 of the '94 finals).

Afterwards, Juna'ya said fatigue wasn't a factor at all, he was simply missing shots he'd normally make. Seemed that way. And even if you don't believe him on that, who else was taking a few of his minutes to give him some rest? And why did both Rok and Tanskley play so well in that game, despite it being the 3rd game in 3 days? Even on this year's deeper team, the minutes that are spread out are down the line (starting with the 4th guy), but not for primary go-to guy, hence JWF getting about the same minutes this year as Juan'ya got two years ago.

If Juan'ya goes even 3/16 or 4/16, no one is talking about the bench or minutes two years ago. They're talking about breaking the NCAAT drought. So if they're lucky enough to get back to the finals, minutes for JWF, Eli or Rok shouldn't be too much of a worry.
Athletes like Juan'ya Green would never make excuses about fatigue. But it was clear fatigue was a major factor. Not only did he shoot 2-16, but he ran an offense in the 2nd half that went over 10 minutes without scoring a basket. These guys were worn down big time. They battled of course, and still could have won, but fatigue was obviously a factor. If we had Nichols healthy, I think we win the title. Not only could he have given guys some rest, he would have also helped breaking that press. But when you lack depth, you can't have injuries. And the lack of depth burned us that year (it's always something)

This year, even though JWF is averaging 37+ minutes a game, I would think in tourney play, Joe will pick his spots to give him some rest over the 3 days. And we have the ability to do that with him and with all of our rotation players this year. BIG DIFFERENCE from 2016..
I agree Dooku25.
Nicols was our super-sub that year and our only non-freshman coming off the bench. It was both the lack of depth and coaches lack of confidence in who was left on the bench that did us in. Green played almost every minute of the 3 games in a row we played that weekend - I believe, justifiably, he had to be shot.
Anyway that's enough from me about that '15-'16 season.
Wags
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Wags »

daHUPride wrote:
Dooku25 wrote:
Wags wrote: They lost because Juan'ya happened to have the worst shooting game he could have (2/16) at the worst possible time after being a huge reason they got there in the first place. It happens (like Starks' 2/18 in Game 7 of the '94 finals).

Afterwards, Juna'ya said fatigue wasn't a factor at all, he was simply missing shots he'd normally make. Seemed that way. And even if you don't believe him on that, who else was taking a few of his minutes to give him some rest? And why did both Rok and Tanskley play so well in that game, despite it being the 3rd game in 3 days? Even on this year's deeper team, the minutes that are spread out are down the line (starting with the 4th guy), but not for primary go-to guy, hence JWF getting about the same minutes this year as Juan'ya got two years ago.

If Juan'ya goes even 3/16 or 4/16, no one is talking about the bench or minutes two years ago. They're talking about breaking the NCAAT drought. So if they're lucky enough to get back to the finals, minutes for JWF, Eli or Rok shouldn't be too much of a worry.
Athletes like Juan'ya Green would never make excuses about fatigue. But it was clear fatigue was a major factor. Not only did he shoot 2-16, but he ran an offense in the 2nd half that went over 10 minutes without scoring a basket. These guys were worn down big time. They battled of course, and still could have won, but fatigue was obviously a factor. If we had Nichols healthy, I think we win the title. Not only could he have given guys some rest, he would have also helped breaking that press. But when you lack depth, you can't have injuries. And the lack of depth burned us that year (it's always something)

This year, even though JWF is averaging 37+ minutes a game, I would think in tourney play, Joe will pick his spots to give him some rest over the 3 days. And we have the ability to do that with him and with all of our rotation players this year. BIG DIFFERENCE from 2016..
I agree Dooku25.
Nicols was our super-sub that year and our only non-freshman coming off the bench. It was both the lack of depth and coaches lack of confidence in who was left on the bench that did us in. Green played almost every minute of the 3 games in a row we played that weekend - I believe, justifiably, he had to be shot.
Anyway that's enough from me about that '15-'16 season.
"Justifiably" is really justifying the loss after the fact, because there had to be an excuse for losing. It can't just be that we accept that he simply had an off night, because that never happens in basketball. :roll:

Juan'ya was so tired, yet after going 1-for-14, he somehow summoned miraculous strength, with Hofstra down four, to score the final four points over the last 1:43 of regualtion, to send the game into OT. lol

Obviously, Juan'ya wasn't competely fresh by the finals, but it's interesting how these guys also played a lot of minutes in the tournament (not that many fewer than Green) and played well for the whole tournament:

Tanksley 35, 36, 40 (111 total)
Flemmings 35, 39, 43 (117)
Ingram 34, 36, 45 (115)
Ponder 31, 37, 40 (108)

Green 40, 40, 41 (121)

And wow, Flemmings (43 min in the finals), Ingram (all 45 min in the finals) and Ponder (40 min in the finals) all were huge in that championship game. How could that have happened with those minutes? :shock: They must have had better Gatorade than Juan'ya did. :lol:
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Polito »

I've gone back and forth on this over the years, but have come to the realization that EVERY quality/top mid rides their horses to the end. It is common place, common practice, and will be that way here... AND there is nothing wrong with it, that is exactly how NCAAT mids do it.

there is simply not enough starting talent on the bench at a mid major, you have to ride your studs

I'm sure fatigue is a factor in some games in some situations, but the reality is these guys can play all day every day.

Do you need depth? Of course - you will need to spell guys from time to time, even stars. BUT not when it matters - when it matters and the games are on the line, or you are in a do or die scenario, you tap your big dogs to very end, and I don't care if it's triple OT, that is what EVERY coach in the game does because it's really the only way to win anything of substance, esp as a mid major.

So basically, I'm good with it, and will not accept being tired as an excuse for losing big games - pop a pill, take an energy drink, have the trainer do some Mr. Miyagi magic on you, whatever it takes lol - you do what you came here to do, play and win :D
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by EvanJ »

Wags wrote:
Polito wrote: Of course he has his limitations as all players do, but he's a double-double machine, is still one of the top bigs in the league, and is going to break an incredible record - granted, as Evan noted well, breaking records is an unknown in terms of voting, but this is a HUGE deal - this is The Admiral - this is a record I would wager most thought would be in place for many more years.
Until recently, we would have all thought the same. But with the way the game is evolving at all levels (including the :30 shot clock instead of :35 in college now), with more of an emphasis on offense than defense and teams playing offense at a faster pace, it all leads to more possessions, more shots and more chances for rebounds than before. So breaking Robinson's record was probably bound to happen sooner than later. But regardless, it was still going to take a great rebounder to do it, so nothing to take away from Rok. It's a tremendous accomplishment, one that I hope Rok can achieve in front of Hofstra fans on Senior Day, on Saturday, rather than down in Charleston. He needs a really big rebounding game at JMU (which is 9th in the CAA on it own glass, so maybe a chance there for some extra offensive boards) to make it possible. 36 in two games to tie, 37 to break. Towson (which leads the CAA with a +5.4 rebounding margin) might be the wrong team for Rok to be able to get the record against on Saturday. He only had 5 boards in just 25 minutes before fouling out in the win at Towson on 1/11. He had 18 boards in the OT win over JMU six nights earlier.
What season did the shot clock decrease? The NCAA average rebounds per team per game was been from 34.3 to 36.4 in the last 21 complete seasons. It was 34.3 to 34.8 in the five seasons from 2010-2011 through 2014-2015, 36.2 in 2015-2016, and 35.7 in 2016-2017. Even if one of the best rebounders goes up by 1 per game due to having more opportunities, that's about 130 for a career, with it being more if you play many NCAA Tournament games in four seasons. Robinson had 199 more rebounds than Vernon Butler, who has the third most in CAA history, and Robinson had 236 more than Jamelle Hagins, who is the top recent rebounder other than Gustys. I wouldn't say somebody breaking the record was inevitable. You need playing time as a freshman. Cacok averaged 9.1 minutes as a freshman. If you triple his minutes to make 27.3 and keep his rebounds per minute the same, he would have had 166 more than the 83 he had. Those 166 rebounds he didn't get could cost him the record. The fact that Marcus Bryan, who is second on UNCW averaging 7.0 rebounds, is a senior could help Cacok.
Wags
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Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Wags »

Polito wrote:I've gone back and forth on this over the years, but have come to the realization that EVERY quality/top mid rides their horses to the end. It is common place, common practice, and will be that way here... AND there is nothing wrong with it, that is exactly how NCAAT mids do it.

there is simply not enough starting talent on the bench at a mid major, you have to ride your studs

I'm sure fatigue is a factor in some games in some situations, but the reality is these guys can play all day every day.

Do you need depth? Of course - you will need to spell guys from time to time, even stars. BUT not when it matters - when it matters and the games are on the line, or you are in a do or die scenario, you tap your big dogs to very end, and I don't care if it's triple OT, that is what EVERY coach in the game does because it's really the only way to win anything of substance, esp as a mid major.

So basically, I'm good with it, and will not accept being tired as an excuse for losing big games - pop a pill, take an energy drink, have the trainer do some Mr. Miyagi magic on you, whatever it takes lol - you do what you came here to do, play and win :D
Another consideration which hasn't been discussed with this is who the other team is playing. Just one example, but in that CAA title game, with Ponder playing 40 minutes, Flemmings 43 and Ingram 45, even if you had a capable backup that year, do you really want to rest your POY that much, and get into matchups with one of UNCW's top horses against your backup, or do you stick with your POY against one of UNCW's main horses and hope your POY has enough in the tank to compete? Even with Green going 2/16, and even if they had a reliable option on the bench that year, the former would've been more risky than the latter.
Wags
Posts: 4610
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:15 pm

Re: Men's Basketball Game 28 vs. Drexel: 2/17/2018 at 4:00 P

Post by Wags »

EvanJ wrote:
Wags wrote:
Polito wrote: Of course he has his limitations as all players do, but he's a double-double machine, is still one of the top bigs in the league, and is going to break an incredible record - granted, as Evan noted well, breaking records is an unknown in terms of voting, but this is a HUGE deal - this is The Admiral - this is a record I would wager most thought would be in place for many more years.
Until recently, we would have all thought the same. But with the way the game is evolving at all levels (including the :30 shot clock instead of :35 in college now), with more of an emphasis on offense than defense and teams playing offense at a faster pace, it all leads to more possessions, more shots and more chances for rebounds than before. So breaking Robinson's record was probably bound to happen sooner than later. But regardless, it was still going to take a great rebounder to do it, so nothing to take away from Rok. It's a tremendous accomplishment, one that I hope Rok can achieve in front of Hofstra fans on Senior Day, on Saturday, rather than down in Charleston. He needs a really big rebounding game at JMU (which is 9th in the CAA on it own glass, so maybe a chance there for some extra offensive boards) to make it possible. 36 in two games to tie, 37 to break. Towson (which leads the CAA with a +5.4 rebounding margin) might be the wrong team for Rok to be able to get the record against on Saturday. He only had 5 boards in just 25 minutes before fouling out in the win at Towson on 1/11. He had 18 boards in the OT win over JMU six nights earlier.
What season did the shot clock decrease? The NCAA average rebounds per team per game was been from 34.3 to 36.4 in the last 21 complete seasons. It was 34.3 to 34.8 in the five seasons from 2010-2011 through 2014-2015, 36.2 in 2015-2016, and 35.7 in 2016-2017. Even if one of the best rebounders goes up by 1 per game due to having more opportunities, that's about 130 for a career, with it being more if you play many NCAA Tournament games in four seasons. Robinson had 199 more rebounds than Vernon Butler, who has the third most in CAA history, and Robinson had 236 more than Jamelle Hagins, who is the top recent rebounder other than Gustys. I wouldn't say somebody breaking the record was inevitable. You need playing time as a freshman. Cacok averaged 9.1 minutes as a freshman. If you triple his minutes to make 27.3 and keep his rebounds per minute the same, he would have had 166 more than the 83 he had. Those 166 rebounds he didn't get could cost him the record. The fact that Marcus Bryan, who is second on UNCW averaging 7.0 rebounds, is a senior could help Cacok.
The shot clock change was two years ago, starting with Rok's sophomore year.

As you said, early playing time matters the most with a record like this. But Rok had that (16.5 mins per game in 27 games -- not bad for a first year -- allowing him to get 153 rebounds as a freshman) helped put him in position to get the record today. He and anyone else still has to be a great rebounder first and foremost to even sniff the record. But the playing time as a freshman and the way the game has changed (shorter shot clock, faster pace, more possessions, more shots, more chances for rebounds) helped him too, at least a little bit. It's all to his credit though. Even if the game changes, and it gives a slight boost to the number of rebounding chances players can get, someone still has to get those rebounds, and he has still done that as well as anyone who has ever played in the CAA since the league's inception.
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