Hofstra @ UNCW

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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:58 pm

triplec2195 wrote:What surprises me about these posts and the constant references as to how on two separate occasions there can be big score swings and a team will beat a team on a given day even blow them out but when they play again that they themselves get blown out. Guys we all have watched hundreds of games I'm sure over the years and this is the nature of this beast they call basketball. Lot's of variables from one game to the next and coaches making adjustments so as not to repeat blow out losses. Players having off nights on and on! Just a small sampling of this comes with Drexel's games this year. In January they lose to UNCW BY 20 BUT BEAT COC in their next game by 5 lose to W&M by 22 then to Delaware,Hofstra,Towson and JMU probably the worst team in this league. They come back and beat Elon and NE. THEY THEN BEAT JMU and W&M by 12 a team they lost to by 22 points. That's a 34 point turnaround. Yesterday they lose to COC by 22 a team they beat by 5. If you want to talk about consistency there's a lack of it in this league and I'm sure in all of college basketball. It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that there are big disparities from game to game. The one thing that we have working in our favor is that we have played well all year on the road and have to think that this will continue. In spite of our non rebounding and poor defense in the last game if we shoot decent percentages this game is a lot closer.

Yes, we've seen the swings game to game even stretch to stretch within games, and we know that's all part of basketball, especially in this conference. So you're right, that should come as no surprise.

However, defense should be a constant. Shots will fall sometimes, and sometimes they won't. Yes, that's basketball. But you can always give the same EFFORT defensively, in going after 50/50 balls, with rebounding. You may not even be one of the best teams in a conference, but you can always be a pain in the ass for anyone to play because you come to play the way you should every night. Can we honestly say that about this team? Is that this team's identity yet, 26 games into the season?

Sometimes you'll stop teams defensively and win, sometimes you won't with that kind of effort. The problem is the defensive effort and overall intensity comes and goes with this team far too frequently to win a championship.

As for their play on the road being good most of the year... how did that work out yesterday, against a team HU should have beaten on the road? I'd be less concerned if they lost the way Elon lost to HU on Thursday (low-scoring, couldn't score, etc.) because I know that would've been an aberration for HU. But to lose 90-70, giving up 48 in the second half, is symptomatic of a season-long issue.

Again, far more than the results it's the way they're playing, getting complacent after a nice win, playing with intensity on D, then abandoning that like they've done so many times before, which tells me they're still not ready to give everything it takes to win a title and get an NCAA bid... sorry, EARN an NCAA bid, by showing up at both ends for 40 minutes, EVERY game. And time is quickly running out to show that and put a scare into the rest of the league going into March.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Cards » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:21 pm

Lets be honest about this team - we are currently 15-11. Take out the D2 win (which really should be on the schedule as an exhibition) and take away just one of the
"miracle" wins, and we are left with a .500 season.

Most everyone says that we have a talented team. So either the team has severely underperformed, the coaching has failed to capitalize on the talent we have, or its been combination of the two.

I for one am very disappointed with the .500 performance this season. I expect better. I have no confidence or expectation that the results over the next 3-4 weeks will be any different. Even if somehow we capture the CAA, in my mind it will be an event where we somehow captured the lightning in the bottle.

Maybe some of the team has underperformed (that's open for debate). If anyone thinks I and others are severely overestimating our talent, then please tell me and set me straight, because in that case, i am happy to say that JM has done a good job with the talent we have. But I don't think that the case. I think that that the players and coaches all work and play hard, but I just don't see the results that most of us would like. I think that most of that responsibility falls on the head coach. I very much like and respect JM the man, i just don't think he's the "guy" to build a year-in year-out championship team around. Not happy to say it, but there it is.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Dooku25 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:45 pm

Wags wrote:So is the CAA tournament in Hempstead?

If we're going to excuse this loss because it was in a tough environment on the road, that doesn't say much this late in the regular season for the team being able to get it together enough to have a real chance at getting the job done in three weeks down in Charleston, and against much better competition than UNCW.


Some folks were thinking we'd just show up in Wilmington and win easy after our performance against Elon. After the Elon game, I was just saying not so fast, this UNCW game didn't set up well for us. And that's how it played out. Each game on the schedule has it's own unique setup. This game in particular did not setup well. UNCW had their Thursday game cancelled and we were coming off a big win. They were fully rested and Cacok came out motivated after getting owned by Gustys in Hempstead. It's tough to win 2 in a row on the road down in the Carolinas.

We have 8 road wins and a neutral site win this year against an A-10 team. I don't think you need to read too much into this team's makeup on the road based off this 1 game because it was just a bad spot for us last night. That's sports sometimes. That was my point. And playing UNCW on their home court IS TOUGHER than playing on a neutral court in Charleston against any conference opponent outside of COC, so that was a stretch anyway.

At this point, I am hoping that we are healthy and land the 2/3 seed to avoid Charleston until the final and hope they get picked off before that. That's our best shot at the dance..
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:45 pm

Cards wrote:Lets be honest about this team - we are currently 15-11. Take out the D2 win (which really should be on the schedule as an exhibition) and take away just one of the
"miracle" wins, and we are left with a .500 season.

Most everyone says that we have a talented team. So either the team has severely underperformed, the coaching has failed to capitalize on the talent we have, or its been combination of the two.

I for one am very disappointed with the .500 performance this season. I expect better. I have no confidence or expectation that the results over the next 3-4 weeks will be any different. Even if somehow we capture the CAA, in my mind it will be an event where we somehow captured the lightning in the bottle.

Maybe some of the team has underperformed (that's open for debate). If anyone thinks I and others are severely overestimating out talent, then please tell me and set me straight, because in that case, i am happy to say that JM has done a good job with the talent we have. But I don't think that the case. I think that that the players and coaches all work and play hard, but I just don't see the results that most of us would like. I think that most of that responsibility falls on the head coach. I very much like and respect JM the man, i just don't think he's the "guy" to build a year-in year-out championship team around. Not happy to say it, but there it is.

I think there's a fine line with this. I obviously can't speak for you, but I suspect you (and perhaps others who might share a similar view) might have a different perspective had Juan'ya not gone an uncharacteristic 2-for-16 in Baltimore two years ago and HU cut the nets down instead of coming up just short in OT.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:55 pm

Dooku25 wrote:
Wags wrote:So is the CAA tournament in Hempstead?
If we're going to excuse this loss because it was in a tough environment on the road, that doesn't say much this late in the regular season for the team being able to get it together enough to have a real chance at getting the job done in three weeks down in Charleston, and against much better competition than UNCW.

Some folks were thinking we'd just show up in Wilmington and win easy after our performance against Elon.

Not show up and win easy, but show up.

The loss didn't shock me. Losing 90-70 did. It's not a big issue that they lost, it's the way they lost. Can you honestly say they gave their best effort last night? Or even close to it? If not, that's a big problem at this time of the year.

Excuses don't win titles. Honestly admitting and recognizing flaws, and working as hard as you can to correct them, might. Or, after early March, we can all sit around and make more excuses as to why that didn't happen. But that won't end the NCAA tourney drought.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby triplec2195 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:32 pm

krood wrote:
Polito wrote:krood, you have experience and insight beyond anything I ever will... I need to know from you, and I want the truth - not what you feel obligated to say, the TRUTH:

Do you see JM getting the job done within his contract (3 yrs?) and leading HU to the NCAAT?

I'm not talking about 'chances', that's baloney - we all have a chance to win the mega lotto. I'm talking based on real hoops knowledge, what do you see happening here?


At the moment, I'd say CoC is the favorite to win the CAA bid, having beat us twice and playing the conference championship 'on their home court'.

In my opinion, NE coach is Coach of the Year and as we split its a coin flip vs. The Ducthmen.

I'll reserve judgement on W&M until our home game on Thursday.

Frankly, we can beat any of these teams on a given night, but winning 3 in a weekend on CoC home court would be memorable!

Our 76 team beat LaSalle and Temple BTB in The Palestra to win the NCAA-T bid and it will take that type of weekend to get it done- but as Tug said, 'You Gotta Believe"!!

What kills me is those who take our season and this staff for granted.....

We have been in the CAA hunt each year since Green, and were a 3pt shot away from the NCAA-T.

Then, two years later post Green-era, we are back in the hunt with the JWR-era. That's not easy to do my friends!!


I'm with Kenny on this and appreciate his perspective having been there and done that. We have been very close and obviously being close and being there two different scenarios. I think this season has been a work in progress and the team that started the year is going to be quite a bit different then the team that's going to finish it. ST yesterday getting 18 minutes and getting a few blocks and some rebounds, JR getting 21 minutes and making solid contributions. I know some people will take exception with this but we're getting much better PG play from both DB and KW. We're getting scoring from both and we got 5 assists from Desure yesterday. We all used to complain about our PG play and our defense now it seems that our defense is our major problem. Everything is interconnected in this game so our poor performance offensively yesterday definitely negatively effected us on defense and they had 35 defensive rebounds. They got 7 fast break points but caught us in situations where we didn't have time to set up our defense. If we beat W&M on Thursday this will be a big confidence booster and motivator coming off this loss to UNCW. I still like our chances so let's just take one game at a time.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:44 pm

triplec2195 wrote:I'm with Kenny on this and appreciate his perspective having been there and done that. We have been very close and obviously being close and being there two different scenarios. I think this season has been a work in progress and the team that started the year is going to be quite a bit different then the team that's going to finish it. ST yesterday getting 18 minutes and getting a few blocks and some rebounds, JR getting 21 minutes and making solid contributions. I know some people will take exception with this but we're getting much better PG play from both DB and KW. We're getting scoring from both and we got 5 assists from Desure yesterday. We all used to complain about our PG play and our defense now it seems that our defense is our major problem. Everything is interconnected in this game so our poor performance offensively yesterday definitely negatively effected us on defense and they had 35 defensive rebounds. They got 7 fast break points but caught us in situations where we didn't have time to set up our defense. If we beat W&M on Thursday this will be a big confidence booster and motivator coming off this loss to UNCW. I still like our chances so let's just take one game at a time.

Have to show better defense and win these last four in Feb. Take care of business in all three at home and beat the worst team in the CAA on the road.

If they're serious about contending for a title, that's not asking too much and it would go a long way with erasing the doubts created by yesterday's loss and other losses this season. It would also give the team a good boost going into the CAA tourney on a nice hot streak.

And it would give them a 12-6 conference record. I don't know the numbers historically (maybe Evan can tell us), but I doubt many teams (if any) have reached the CAA finals with >6 conference losses. I'd bet that three years ago, when the top four teams were all 12-6, might be the only time a team as many as 6 conference losses won the tourney, and possibly the same for just reaching the CAA finals. I know every year is its own, but lose any of these final four regular season games and the odds would seem to go way down at least from that historical perspective.
Last edited by Wags on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby joeg1 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:31 pm

Don't know what to think- we look so good some days and so bad others. Good teams play at a high level all of the time. We don't.

I don't think it's talent or effort. We don't execute, we don't respond to other teams well and we often look badly prepared- who do you blame for that? And yeah, it's hard. But this is D1. Get it done or find someone who can.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Hofstra » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:20 pm

People go back and forth after every game. The lines in the sand have been drawn. Regardless of what happens, people will bash the staff, and people will tell us that the staff is amazing. No point in defending your point anymore as all minds are made up it seems. We can come back to this topic once we don't win down in Charleston. I hope we do win though.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby triplec2195 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:50 pm

Hofstra wrote:People go back and forth after every game. The lines in the sand have been drawn. Regardless of what happens, people will bash the staff, and people will tell us that the staff is amazing. No point in defending your point anymore as all minds are made up it seems. We can come back to this topic once we don't win down in Charleston. I hope we do win though.


Hofstra very simply put but there's a lot of truth to what you are saying!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby krood » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:48 pm

Hofstra wrote:People go back and forth after every game. The lines in the sand have been drawn. Regardless of what happens, people will bash the staff, and people will tell us that the staff is amazing. No point in defending your point anymore as all minds are made up it seems. We can come back to this topic once we don't win down in Charleston. I hope we do win though.


I am proud to be in the 'can do' camp with this staff.

We have seen programs grab at the next 'shiny object' only to go backwards and even hit bottom. Once that happens its tough to rebuild.

Our program was there in 2013 (7-25, not to mention the embarrassment of that scandal)

Two 20+ wins seasons (and a Regular Season CAA Championship), a rebuild year LY has us poised for another 20 win season and a #4 seed in a league where any of the Top 4 can clinch the NCAA-T bid.

Winning in Charleston on a contender's home court should not be the only criteria for success. I love to see 4-yr kids like Gustys develop into one of Hofstra's great's, JWR go from a bench-player to a 2,000pt scorer and now see similar potential with Pemberton (Soph) and Ray (Frosh). And most importantly, if you have heard them introduce themselves at the Open Practice in December, they are good kids!

Obviously, they got my vote!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Hofstra » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:24 am

Krood, I like the enthusiasm, and I know you're a former player. As a fan though, I don't care if they're nice. I want them to be winners. In sports, there are winners and losers, nice people don't factor in the vote. While winners who are nice are even better, I don't mind an asshat every now and than as long as they are winning asshats.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:46 am

krood wrote:
Hofstra wrote:People go back and forth after every game. The lines in the sand have been drawn. Regardless of what happens, people will bash the staff, and people will tell us that the staff is amazing. No point in defending your point anymore as all minds are made up it seems. We can come back to this topic once we don't win down in Charleston. I hope we do win though.


I am proud to be in the 'can do' camp with this staff.

We have seen programs grab at the next 'shiny object' only to go backwards and even hit bottom. Once that happens its tough to rebuild.

Our program was there in 2013 (7-25, not to mention the embarrassment of that scandal)

Two 20+ wins seasons (and a Regular Season CAA Championship), a rebuild year LY has us poised for another 20 win season and a #4 seed in a league where any of the Top 4 can clinch the NCAA-T bid.

Winning in Charleston on a contender's home court should not be the only criteria for success. I love to see 4-yr kids like Gustys develop into one of Hofstra's great's, JWR go from a bench-player to a 2,000pt scorer and now see similar potential with Pemberton (Soph) and Ray (Frosh). And most importantly, if you have heard them introduce themselves at the Open Practice in December, they are good kids!

Obviously, they got my vote!

Like you said, a 20-win season and a 24-win season, possibly a third 20-win season this year for three of the five years during Joe's tenure, following the 7-25, scandal-laden, rock-bottom year just prior to Joe's arrival. And throw in that the 24-win season yielded the lone regular season title during Hofstra's entire stay in the CAA thus far. From that view, it's not too bad and some patience is probably warranted.

But I think the diehards don't see it that way. They go back to Jay Wright and consecutive AE tourney titles and further. Their frustration is more than just hoping HU will make it's first NCAA tourney in Joe's five years at HU. They're hoping HU will make its first NCAA tourney in its 17 years since joining in the CAA.

It's unfair to Joe, and while he's of course only responsible for the most recent four years plus however this one turns out, any current coach (not just Joe) was bound to carry the weight of that longer 16-year drought (maybe 17 after this year). I don't want to speak for others, but I think that's where some of the impatience comes from. I think had any of the earlier regimes during HU's time in the CAA made some NCAA tourneys, or even one, there'd be more patience with the current regime. Just the way it goes. It's the same for any new Knicks coach, Jets coach, or any team that's been waiting a long time for a championship. It may be unfair, but until the drought is broken, the most recent coach bears the brunt of history beyond his own tenure with the team.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby triplec2195 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:46 am

ProudofPride wrote:
triplec2195 wrote:So on a lighter note where does the reference " Little Napoleons" come from???


It all stemmed off of W&M fans' reactions when Pemba de-committed from there and chose Hofstra. They were bad mouthing HU big time, saying how the school is basically a community college compared to W&M, and how unclassy JAM was for stealing him away. Essentially, they just had a little Napoleon Complex going on.


Thanks proudofpride I didn't have a clue I keep seeing posts by Polito using that term thought I was just totally clueless. I don't like being compared to a community college though that's B.S. More of an incentive to whip their butt.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby HUSID74 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:28 am

joeg1 wrote:Don't know what to think- we look so good some days and so bad others. Good teams play at a high level all of the time. We don't.

I don't think it's talent or effort. We don't execute, we don't respond to other teams well and we often look badly prepared- who do you blame for that? And yeah, it's hard. But this is D1. Get it done or find someone who can.


Well I guess there are no good teams this year...every team in the NCAA has had clunkers...look at Duke vs St. John's and for that matter Villanova vs. St. John's...go figure...it's kids playing a game...stuff happens no matter who you are or whatever the name is on your uniform.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby triplec2195 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:13 pm

HUSID74 wrote:
joeg1 wrote:Don't know what to think- we look so good some days and so bad others. Good teams play at a high level all of the time. We don't.

I don't think it's talent or effort. We don't execute, we don't respond to other teams well and we often look badly prepared- who do you blame for that? And yeah, it's hard. But this is D1. Get it done or find someone who can.


Well I guess there are no good teams this year...every team in the NCAA has had clunkers...look at Duke vs St. John's and for that matter Villanova vs. St. John's...go figure...it's kids playing a game...stuff happens no matter who you are or whatever the name is on your uniform.


Amen to that SID it's a no brainer!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Cards » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:04 pm

Looking for consistency....not undefeated seasons!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:23 pm

Cards wrote:Looking for consistency....not undefeated seasons!

Amen to THAT!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby HUSID74 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:30 pm

Wags wrote:
Cards wrote:Looking for consistency....not undefeated seasons!

Amen to THAT!


Better than consistently bad! This team, for the most part, has been a lot of fun to watch. Never a dull moment, they've given us some real thrills with fantastic finishes; when were we on Sports Center once in a season let alone three times!
JWF has been thrilling to watch and Rok is having a memorable season as well.

Let's hope we finish it off the way we know we can!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby HU76 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:06 pm

krood wrote:
Hofstra wrote:People go back and forth after every game. The lines in the sand have been drawn. Regardless of what happens, people will bash the staff, and people will tell us that the staff is amazing. No point in defending your point anymore as all minds are made up it seems. We can come back to this topic once we don't win down in Charleston. I hope we do win though.


I am proud to be in the 'can do' camp with this staff.

We have seen programs grab at the next 'shiny object' only to go backwards and even hit bottom. Once that happens its tough to rebuild.

Our program was there in 2013 (7-25, not to mention the embarrassment of that scandal)

Two 20+ wins seasons (and a Regular Season CAA Championship), a rebuild year LY has us poised for another 20 win season and a #4 seed in a league where any of the Top 4 can clinch the NCAA-T bid.

Winning in Charleston on a contender's home court should not be the only criteria for success. I love to see 4-yr kids like Gustys develop into one of Hofstra's great's, JWR go from a bench-player to a 2,000pt scorer and now see similar potential with Pemberton (Soph) and Ray (Frosh). And most importantly, if you have heard them introduce themselves at the Open Practice in December, they are good kids!

Obviously, they got my vote!


Anything can happen in the CAA tournament and this team has enough talent to win it all. As I recall, the 75-76 team at one point was 10-10 and had lost to CW Post (I think). They made some adjustments (Tomlin at point) and went on that great winning streak right through the ECC tournament and almost beat UConn in the first round of the NCAAs.
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