Game 16 - Elon

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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby Polito » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:43 am

Agree triplec, although I don't think FD was 'blaming' JWF per say (could be wrong of course)

But this is exactly why I have stated I don't want JWF filling the PG role - it's ridiculous to have to put him in that position - that's why I've been ballistically bitching about the PG position and whiffs for 2 yrs - I don't want him feeling any pressure or spending any energy trying to run the O - he IS the O and needs to be free to continue to be that

I've said all there is to say on KW so won't go there anymore. Told ya'll. Don't blame him, blame the staff for the complete miss on the most important position in the class.

The frustration shouldn't be confusing to anyone at this point. It's quite clear. Just as stated, this program has become stagnant, and has been in the same position for years. THAT is exactly the problem, THAT is exactly why most have had it.

Most have given the more than fair 5 yr timeframe, and with that winding down and the results weak, the fair frustration will and absolutely should grow. And loudly.

Like I said, enjoy JWF and some exciting regular season games, that looks like the gist of the season.
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby HUSID74 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 am

Polito wrote:Agree triplec, although I don't think FD was 'blaming' JWF per say (could be wrong of course)

But this is exactly why I have stated I don't want JWF filling the PG role - it's ridiculous to have to put him in that position - that's why I've been ballistically bitching about the PG position and whiffs for 2 yrs - I don't want him feeling any pressure or spending any energy trying to run the O - he IS the O and needs to be free to continue to be that

I've said all there is to say on KW so won't go there anymore. Told ya'll. Don't blame him, blame the staff for the complete miss on the most important position in the class.

The frustration shouldn't be confusing to anyone at this point. It's quite clear. Just as stated, this program has become stagnant, and has been in the same position for years. THAT is exactly the problem, THAT is exactly why most have had it.

Most have given the more than fair 5 yr timeframe, and with that winding down and the results weak, the fair frustration will and absolutely should grow. And loudly.

Like I said, enjoy JWF and some exciting regular season games, that looks like the gist of the season.


I also recall someone named Polito extolling the virtues of Desure Buie at the point...how's that working out?
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby stuball888 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:48 am

To be fair. desire is coming off a major injury. While I give him a pass on the physical aspect of his game he has had some problems with decision making running the point
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby Polito » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:46 pm

Really? Ok, I'll play, this is an easy one.

Buie was a Top 10 NY player, consensus 3 star, averaged 8-10 assists per game, and lead a Top 25 nationally program to the H.S. National Title game. And nearly won it. He is a true point, and still has the best PG skills of anyone on the team. Going with him is easily defendable by anyone with common sense assessing his ability - signing KW was a joke. And as Cards noted, a load of BS was used to justify it.

Has he disappointed this year? Absolutely, and I have noted as such. He has not been able to produce as expected or as needed. To be fair, as Stu said he is also coming off a MAJOR injury - he didn't break a nail. His play was TBD this year until he could prove he was fully 'back' to form.

Unfortunately he isn't. I don't know if that's the injury or just plain subpar play, don't want to make excuses for him, but either way A) he and KW are light years apart in terms of PG ability/potential and B) I agree fully neither are the answer this year. But I will say even still DB has had some stellar passes/assists this season - he's at least a pass first/creation kind of guy. The PG position at HU has been nothing but a hodgepodge of makeshift guys who either should not be filling the role or simply can't in this offense.

IMO, barring injury, if Buie was treated as the primary point last year instead of this staff going to Me-ron Powers, he would've been able to continue developing his game to be the floor leader this team desperately needs.

Kid had HUGE potential, but combo of 50% hasn't been fully used properly IMO, and 50% hasn't fulfilled his end of the bargain yet.
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby EvanJ » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:40 pm

Polito wrote:IMO, barring injury, if Buie was treated as the primary point last year instead of this staff going to Me-ron Powers, he would've been able to continue developing his game to be the floor leader this team desperately needs.

Powers was third in the CAA in assists per game and assist/turnover ratio. His assist/turnover ratio ranks fifth on Hofstra in the 12 seasons 2005-2006 through 2016-2017 with at least 2.5 assists per team game:

Green 2014-2015: 2.56
Green 2015-2016: 2.41
Kelleher 2010-2011: 2.18
Jenkins 2010-2011: 2.16
Powers 2016-2017: 1.98
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby joeg1 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:18 pm

PG has to be a scorer himself or teams play off him- essentially 5 on 4. That's what we have had until recently, and I believe is why we switched to Ray.
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby triplec2195 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:40 pm

Deron Powers was a talented scorer and was a really quick guard that could handle the ball but the knock on him was I think that he wasn't the best defensive player and was small. His numbers were certainly solid.
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby Flying Dutchmen » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:41 pm

Polito wrote:Agree triplec, although I don't think FD was 'blaming' JWF per say (could be wrong of course)

But this is exactly why I have stated I don't want JWF filling the PG role - it's ridiculous to have to put him in that position - that's why I've been ballistically bitching about the PG position and whiffs for 2 yrs - I don't want him feeling any pressure or spending any energy trying to run the O - he IS the O and needs to be free to continue to be that


Exactly, wasn't trying to blame JWF at all, he's been awesome.

Just that he can't be expected to score 25 points a game, AND run the whole offense. JWF isn't really a PG, he has good handle which makes it tempting, but he's obviously our best scorer, and has the green light from anywhere, better suited for a SG position.

I respect that the staff tried to make some changes from Friday night, when we had multiple players handling the ball, because we were turning it over like crazy. It just didn't work on Sunday, they have to find a way to move the ball like we did on Friday night, but not turn it over 20 times. My ultimate hope is that we get more efficient in that offense we ran against JMU, which has been producing points, just gotta clean the turnovers and we should stay competitive.

I agree with going more Buie too, he's been shaky defensively to the point where he's been rightfully been pulled for Ray, but he has good PG skills, and can score a bit too, we need him to be a major contributor down the stretch. I think he's been seeing more minutes too, the flu bug may have just got him this weekend, he obviously didn't play Sunday.

Regarding, KW, I was totally on board with giving him time to fit into the system, but it's not working, and his minutes have been reduced accordingly. Ray has definitely passed him, Buie was always ahead, the starter role is just for show at this point. Maybe he got hyped too much, I didn't expect for him to be the starter, but he just hasn't brought much to the table in the awareness department. I don't want to totally rule him out because sometimes it just clicks late, maybe that's how the staff feels as well, but we desperately need some type of production out of the PG spot.
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby HUSID74 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:49 pm

Polito wrote:Really? Ok, I'll play, this is an easy one.

Buie was a Top 10 NY player, consensus 3 star, averaged 8-10 assists per game, and lead a Top 25 nationally program to the H.S. National Title game. And nearly won it. He is a true point, and still has the best PG skills of anyone on the team. Going with him is easily defendable by anyone with common sense assessing his ability - signing KW was a joke. And as Cards noted, a load of BS was used to justify it.

Has he disappointed this year? Absolutely, and I have noted as such. He has not been able to produce as expected or as needed. To be fair, as Stu said he is also coming off a MAJOR injury - he didn't break a nail. His play was TBD this year until he could prove he was fully 'back' to form.

Unfortunately he isn't. I don't know if that's the injury or just plain subpar play, don't want to make excuses for him, but either way A) he and KW are light years apart in terms of PG ability/potential and B) I agree fully neither are the answer this year. But I will say even still DB has had some stellar passes/assists this season - he's at least a pass first/creation kind of guy. The PG position at HU has been nothing but a hodgepodge of makeshift guys who either should not be filling the role or simply can't in this offense.

IMO, barring injury, if Buie was treated as the primary point last year instead of this staff going to Me-ron Powers, he would've been able to continue developing his game to be the floor leader this team desperately needs.

Kid had HUGE potential, but combo of 50% hasn't been fully used properly IMO, and 50% hasn't fulfilled his end of the bargain yet.


Buie had a very promising freshman season...used sparingly he infused some energy and good defense into games. Unfortunately his injury last season derailed him and he has not come back as well as all hoped...Small as a freshmen he was getting abused by larger CAA guards and he has not really gotten any bigger since then...hopefully he gains some more confidence and plays the way he did against Stony Brook where he was a real factor...I think Pemberton should get more time at the PG position...he played pretty well there last season...let JWF and Ray play the wings.
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby joeg1 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:56 pm

Another note- we had Rok chasing Seibring around the perimeter all game. It clearly did not work. When he and Dawkins are on the floor together, Elon is tough to guard, our shortcomings notwithstanding.
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby triplec2195 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:25 pm

joeg1 wrote:Another note- we had Rok chasing Seibring around the perimeter all game. It clearly did not work. When he and Dawkins are on the floor together, Elon is tough to guard, our shortcomings notwithstanding.


Neither one of these guys look athletic especially Seibring but they r both deceptive and very good ball players. They have a lot of balance and options on offense. When u think u have them blanketed they pass out to the wing and there's Santa Ana open who can hit the three. They have a real PG who doesn't turn it over and can penetrate into the paint at will. Unless you match up with Seibring and Dawkins u r not going to beat this team. As for constant comments about DB we all know what his resume is but he isn't playing up to this and can't rest on his laurels. We don't have a lot of offensive depth and stink defensively so I think Joe should roll the dice and go with our freshmen. I think it's our best option at this point. JA still has a place on this team if the matchups r right but KW what a trainwreck!!
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby Polito » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:32 pm

Ya know what, I'm ready to see JR take the reigns too - why the hell not, this team isn't dancing, so let's give him a shot - maybe it's the boost that sparks a complete turnaround. Sure can't be any worse than the productivity at the 1 now...

I know the starting spot thing really is not a big deal and kind of just a song and dance placeholder nowadays, but to me it is still a reward for the players who deserve it.

To continue to trot out KW in a starting role that he hasn't earned, and worse played himself out of, at this point in the season is wrong. He can be very useful off the bench IMO.

Yeah he's a frosh and will make some mistakes, but we've got Jrs making mistakes so what's the difference. This kid is a baller, so this could help him speed up the development - worth a shot I think.
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Re: Game 16 - Elon

Postby triplec2195 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:21 pm

Polito wrote:Ya know what, I'm ready to see JR take the reigns too - why the hell not, this team isn't dancing, so let's give him a shot - maybe it's the boost that sparks a complete turnaround. Sure can't be any worse than the productivity at the 1 now...

I know the starting spot thing really is not a big deal and kind of just a song and dance placeholder nowadays, but to me it is still a reward for the players who deserve it.

To continue to trot out KW in a starting role that he hasn't earned, and worse played himself out of, at this point in the season is wrong. He can be very useful off the bench IMO.

Yeah he's a frosh and will make some mistakes, but we've got Jrs making mistakes so what's the difference. This kid is a baller, so this could help him speed up the development - worth a shot I think.


In agreement Polito lets roll the dice!!
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