Game 11 - Manhattan (at Adelphi)

[Wags]

Just got back, ugh, heartbreaker.

Should we lose that game? Absolutely not. But it was just such a strange game. We could not shoot the ball, 32%. We frankly outplayed them everywhere else. I've never seen us lack confidence from the perimeter the way we did tonight. The shooting was horrible from all over the court.

The reason I can't be too mad is because we just didn't give up, and we had a really good chance to win, with possession, down 1 with 29 seconds left. We just could not hit a shot. Kudos to Manhattan for gutting it out, but I'm just bewildered, the Jaspers played solid defensively, but we had good looks all night.

Also, props to our athletic department for doing a real nice job with the lounge today, and thanks to Adelphi for hosting us, it was a really nice environment for a one-off game, just a bummer of an ending.

Yeah, it was set up well. That building is very nice, especially for a D-II program.

I don't know what that next to last HU possession was. They get a HUGE break with Manhattan missing two FTs alone at the line and HU making two FTs in the same situation to get within one, and they completely waste it. Down two, out of a timeout with :28.7 left, and the best they do is a rushed, contested JWF 3 with :14 left??? Take your time, move the ball, get a good shot, maybe attack and get to the basket, maybe draw a foul to tie the game or take a lead on a FT or two.

They also wasted another big gift... Manhattan going 12/24 at the line in the second half after going 10/12 from there in the first half.

[Jojogunne]

Just got back, ugh, heartbreaker.

Should we lose that game? Absolutely not. But it was just such a strange game. We could not shoot the ball, 32%. We frankly outplayed them everywhere else. I've never seen us lack confidence from the perimeter the way we did tonight. The shooting was horrible from all over the court.

The reason I can't be too mad is because we just didn't give up, and we had a really good chance to win, with possession, down 1 with 29 seconds left. We just could not hit a shot. Kudos to Manhattan for gutting it out, but I'm just bewildered, the Jaspers played solid defensively, but we had good looks all night.

Also, props to our athletic department for doing a real nice job with the lounge today, and thanks to Adelphi for hosting us, it was a really nice environment for a one-off game, just a bummer of an ending.

I guess after this game I need to vent with a glass of wine by my side. I'll start of first by saying we were three season ticket holders at the game and when we went to sit in the seats that have backs middle of the court we were told we couldn't sit there. What?????????/ When I questioned Maria Corvino told me they were reserved for family etc of the ballplayers. Really well not only have I been around this program for 40 years I've been a season ticket holder for numerous years and secondly there were tons of empty seats there. This got me annoyed from the get go especially when after the game started I saw a bunch of people move into those seats and nobody said anything.

You're right, triplec. This whole "neutral site" arrangement was a fiasco.

[Wags]

Kudo's to #33 Pauly Paulicap of Manhattan who had 6 block shots and was a definite enforcer down low.

The only six in the entire game, too!

What was Rok doing that (albeit with a double-double, 10 & a game-high 13)he couldn't even get one block in 33 minutes?

[Wags]

I don't know what that next to last HU possession was. They get a HUGE break with Manhattan missing two FTs alone at the line and HU making two FTs in the same situation to get within one, and they completely waste it. Down two, out of a timeout with :28.7 left, and the best they do is a rushed, contested JWF 3 with :14 left??? Take your time, move the ball, get a good shot, maybe attack and get to the basket, maybe draw a foul to tie the game or take a lead on a FT or two.

This explanation on the above kind of puzzling:

"I thought we should’ve taken the ball to the basket. We were just down one and we kind of settled. Our team was a combination of guys that for defensive purposes, we had to have those guys in there and they’re not quite used to playing together like they had to, so we didn’t execute as well as we should have."

There was a deadball situation before that possession. If they felt the above was the case, they couldn't have quickly subbed some defense for offense to execute much better?

[stuball888]

The last two wins our opponenets shot less than 50% or at 50% from the free throw line it didnt happen tonite and we lose. manhattan also has something in a 5 we dont. Its called a defensive stopper. We play like this in the CAA like we did tonite and its lights out Like yogi berra said 'its getting late very early now". After friday its conference time.

[stuball888]

The last two wins our opponenets shot less than 50% or at 50% from the free throw line it didnt happen tonite and we lose. manhattan also has something in a 5 we dont. Its called a defensive stopper. We play like this in the CAA like we did tonite and its lights out Like yogi berra said 'its getting late very early now". After friday its conference time.

[triplec2195]

Kudo's to #33 Pauly Paulicap of Manhattan who had 6 block shots and was a definite enforcer down low.

The only six in the entire game, too!

What was Rok doing that (albeit with a double-double, 10 & a game-high 13)he couldn't even get one block in 33 minutes?

There were a lot of sub par performances in this game and RG although his final stats show that he hit 5 of 8(thought he missed more than that?) and had 13 rebounds he missed easy chip shots had no blocks and again I've said it over and over again he didn't contest any shots. He at times will let guards score after they beat their man and just watch the play. HS had a poor shooting night and his baby hook was off but also nobody was pounding the glass and getting a rebound on his misses. Time and time again our guards got into the paint but they were doing a good job contesting our shots. Overall our PG's didn't play well they didn't score and turned the ball over. A very frustrating game to watch!

[HUSID74]

The last two wins our opponenets shot less than 50% or at 50% from the free throw line it didnt happen tonite and we lose. manhattan also has something in a 5 we dont. Its called a defensive stopper. We play like this in the CAA like we did tonite and its lights out Like yogi berra said 'its getting late very early now". After friday its conference time.

By the way Stu, this same Manhattan team only lost by one to the CAA's flagship team so far Towson.

Fact is, no one besides JWF came to play and Manhattan did a great job stopping him in the second half.

There is NO team that plays defense like Manhattan does in the CAA and we just didn't handle it well. Add the fact that we were forced to play on a strange court and that probably cost us the game...sucks!

[stuball888]

So let me get this straight John. We played on a strange court. What court did Manhattan play on? I don’t want excuses this team is too incosistant still and after Villanova we are in conference play. What adjustments have this coaching staff done the past few games. We play three and possibly four games in a row in the CAA tourney Do you really now have confidence they we will do well enough in conference play to earn a top 4 spot. Sorry the team lacks a killer instinct needed to succeed We play down to our competition

[Cards]

Yes, i know that every once in a while a team has an off shooting night, but c'mom guys, stop making excuses for this team. They played like ?#&^%#
There was nothing positive to say about this game. Bigs should have played better, wings contributed nothing, guards could not handle the press........they were all bad.

That all being said, I place much of the blame on JM. Why did he take sooooo long to change the strategy against the press?? The first half was a disaster! Why did we not continue with the "weave" like we did the last three games? Instead of having guys guys constantly moving, we had guys standing on the perimeter until one guy would decide to go one on one. And I don't want to hear that MC took us out of that type of offense.......we never tried it (after it worked for the last several games). Where were the in game adjustments??? There were none. JMs strategy at the beginning of the game was still in play at the middle and end of the game. And the excuse for the screw up with 23 seconds left in the game was sooo weak. At least call it like it is - everyone at the game saw that JWF lost track of the time left and he panicked! He also messed up again with 5 seconds left. Now, I am not bashing JWF, as guys are allowed to make mistakes, but the excuse JM gave was poor.

We have talked about this many times. JM does not adjust to game conditions quickly enough or not at all. JM probably knows ten times more about coaching and strategy than I will ever know.......but I think he takes as much of the blame for this loss as do the players (all of them).

Before tonight I thought this team was on an upswing and I was more optimistic for CAA play. But now I'm convinced that anything can happen this season......that the team is too inconsistent to predict how things will go. They could have a great CAA season and win the title, but they could just as easily play .500 ball. I just think that they should be more consistent than they are. And then of course there is the coaching issue.......

[Mike34]

Cards - I totally agree with you in that JM did not change things up at all. Clearly whatever went down in the first half did. not. work. period. He should have been rotating guys in and out, as Manhattan quickly learned the very few plays we have. Hofstra played extremely weak/lackluster and with no confidence in my opinion. However, I also think after watching that game that Manhattan is a very good team and played pretty well. Both teams were on an unfamiliar court so that is no excuse.

[Polito]

Manhattan is not a bad team, will likely compete for MAAC title, but this game was pitiful for HU.

To say that HU will not face anyone in the CAA that can play D like Manhattan is absolutely ridiculous.

To blame the venue is also absolutely ridiculous.

Hanging our hats on the fact that the players aren't giving up is absolutely ridiculous. These are not freshmen in a rec league - this is D1, these guys are Jr's and Sr's, and we are 11 games into a vital season. Not giving up is for games against Top 25 teams. You get no kudos for that in a key rivalry game.

Not trying to be an ass, but all of the above is bush league and has no place in a D1 flagship program. Expect more. Let's stop making poor excuses and have some standards please.

The reality is this group is unfortunately proving to be a 1 man team that is extremely inconsistent, plays below avg D, and simply doesn't shoot the ball well. That's a recipe for another disappointing year.

I am in the camp that this staff has kind of reached their peak, and don't believe they are going to get the NCAAT accomplished, BUT it is also clear that this is not all their fault (even though they are ultimately accountable). The players are very disappointing, they are simply not coming to play, often not focused, not playing like a team, not playing well, make rookie mental errors every game, and are not improving, etc.

It's really really really frustrating. This program has become very difficult to follow and support - finding it more and more challenging to keep interest each year.

[HUSID74]

So let me get this straight John. We played on a strange court. What court did Manhattan play on? I don’t want excuses this team is too incosistant still and after Villanova we are in conference play. What adjustments have this coaching staff done the past few games. We play three and possibly four games in a row in the CAA tourney Do you really now have confidence they we will do well enough in conference play to earn a top 4 spot. Sorry the team lacks a killer instinct needed to succeed We play down to our competition

Stu, playing at Adelphi hurt us more than Manhattan. I you look at Sagarin, they give the home court advantage at 3.18 points...play this game at the Mack and we win IMO....thanks again Stu Rabinowitz and the schedule makers....big mistake to play it at Adelphi IMO...nice facility, and it was handled well but it should have a REAL HOME game.

[Pride97]

Lots of issues with last night's game. JAM definitely didn't make adjustments needed. However, the ball handling was atrocious. All of the guards, including JWF, Pemba and Ray looked lost out there against the press and at the top of the key. There was constantly poor decision making. Many possessions were ended with finding no where to go and forcing shots. The weird thing was (and i don't have the stats) it seemed like they shot an unusually few amount of threes. With Manhattan clogging the middle it seemed that the perimeter was open.

Lastly, it was a horrible game for the bigs. I want Rok to play so much better but i am coming to the realization that it will never happen. He is a liability on offense because he can't handle passes down low and doesn't have a great touch around the hoop. He also gets beat by more physical centers. I always give HS the benefit of the doubt, but he looked lost last night. His shot was off, but more importnantly, he played very little D. He had a few bad fouls and was not aggressive at all. He stood flat footed under the rim for most of the time he was out there which was strange for him. Just looked confused. His missed shots seemed to affect the rest of his game.

[HUSID74]

Manhattan is not a bad team, will likely compete for MAAC title, but this game was pitiful for HU.

To say that HU will not face anyone in the CAA that can play D like Manhattan is absolutely ridiculous.

To blame the venue is also absolutely ridiculous.

Hanging our hats on the fact that the players aren't giving up is absolutely ridiculous. These are not freshmen in a rec league - this is D1, these guys are Jr's and Sr's, and we are 11 games into a vital season. Not giving up is for games against Top 25 teams. You get no kudos for that in a key rivalry game.

Not trying to be an ass, but all of the above is bush league and has no place in a D1 flagship program. Expect more. Let's stop making poor excuses and have some standards please.

The reality is this group is unfortunately proving to be a 1 man team that is extremely inconsistent, plays below avg D, and simply doesn't shoot the ball well. That's a recipe for another disappointing year.

I am in the camp that this staff has kind of reached their peak, and don't believe they are going to get the NCAAT accomplished, BUT it is also clear that this is not all their fault (even though they are ultimately accountable). The players are very disappointing, they are simply not coming to play, often not focused, not playing like a team, not playing well, make rookie mental errors every game, and are not improving, etc.

It's really really really frustrating. This program has become very difficult to follow and support - finding it more and more challenging to keep interest each year.

Polito, in all due respect there is no team we will play in the CAA that plays defense like Manhattan...and if you think we DID NOT GIVE UP A SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE BY PLAYING THIS GAME AT ADELPHI YOU ARE DEAD WRONG.

[Flying Dutchmen]

if you think we DID NOT GIVE UP A SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE BY PLAYING THIS GAME AT ADELPHI YOU ARE DEAD WRONG.

We did give up a slight advantage, but I'm sorry, in this game it shouldn't matter. Manhattan's not good this season. I'll admit it was a strange court with horrible shooting sightlines, but Manhattan managed to shoot like 43%, what would they have shot at the Mack? We had 7 more rebounds than Manhattan in a game where we took 17 more shots than them, Manhattan also had one more turnover than us. On sheer opportunity we should have won the game.

The bottom line is we had a bad game, perhaps we were riding too high after a few of those cardiac wins the last two weeks, and the team lost focus with finals/graduation. It's not an excuse for a bad loss, but it's a big learning point the staff has to instill in the players, the focus always has to be there. I am happy the effort has been strong though, we have not caved late, like we've done in the past. As the team continues to come together, that could be the advantage that puts us over the top, especially in a weak CAA.

Adelphi was a cool experience, it was a one-off event that was like playing a game in the old PFC. I had a good time, the hospitality from the athletics staff has been great and the accessibility they provide is one of the main reasons I support this program.

Polito, your "Expect More" line is bullshit, I'm tired of hearing it. Do you even watch the games, or do you just come on the boards and complain when we lose? I expect the CAA Title every year, is that not enough? If we lose the game, should we expect the team to self-flagellate after every loss?

An analogy of your argument is like looking at a green apple, then stating it should be red; and when someone else says "hey that's not a bad green apple," you tell them "expect more." It's patronizing.

Despite the loss last night, I think the team is progressing, and could actually make a run for the title. Things need to get cleaned up, our frontcourt has to play better defensively, it's a huge key. Progress isn't necessarily linear, the fact we're winning while we're still solidifying our rotation is encouraging.

The negativity has been sucking the life out of these message boards. There's a difference between being critical and just outright negative, I've crossed that line a few times this year, and I apologize for that, I'm not going to do it again.

Can't wait for the Villanova game tomorrow.

[HUSID74]

Flying Dutchman well said...just want to add one more point. All I hear is that JAM makes no adjustments...well that is BS...the fact of the matter is that they had a good scheme against the press if you bothered to really watch except for the fact that Wormley was flat out horrible inbounding the ball...JAM moved on to Buie who was a bit better...then they adjusted even further when one of our guards; JWF or Ray was trying to get past half-court and they turned it over...we then inbounded the ball and whomever got the pass got it back to the PG who then got the ball up the court. IMO we had a good plan that was POORLY executed...for whatever reasons...you can all pick.

[triplec2195]

We all keep beating our heads against a cement wall and I'm certainly guilty of it but while some of us r quick to blame the coaching staff for our bad, lack of effort sloppy not tough enough play we do have the coaching system to blame but maybe not in the way we're thinking in drawing up game plans and correct subs etc. but maybe something much more intrinsic. How about in our recruiting? We all know recruiting is the bottom line in college basketball and if JM was coaching Villanova I wonder what their record would be right now? We certainly have some good ball players but we really don't have enough of these good players which all reflects on the kids we r able to recruit. If u look at last nights game what did we have after JWF? If EP has a flat game like last night who picks him up?? JR who played 20 minutes and had 3 points or DB who played 21minutes and had 3 points and 4 turnovers KW who had 4 points in 26 minutes. It really looks like we don't have the horses on this team and with all the subs being made team chemistry is still a big question mark? We're all feeling the frustration since we have higher aspirations for this program and after listening to our Athletic director to our coach we're being fed these lofty goals but just how realistic are they??

[Dooku25]

I sat court side for this game and IMO we win this game at the Mack. We struggled all night shooting the ball, had at least 5 shots rim out. This might happen a few times every game, but it just felt like it happened too often last night.

Bottom line is Manhattan wanted this game more than us. They played with intensity for all 40 minutes while we were just going through the motions. At least that's how it looked. It was an ugly game, just the way Manhattan probably wanted it.

The last few minutes was crazy and Manhattan did everything they could to let us back in. JWF had a poor last 2 possessions, rushing a 3 unnecessarily and then throwing the ball away off a double team. Not going to knock our best player though, he's been tremendous so far. More concerned with Eli, maybe playing though a minor injury? He's not being aggressive at all out there.

Overall this was a bad game for us, and we should never lose to a team with less talent than us. Can't really take any positives out of this one.. It also killed our RPI. We dropped 40 spots..

[Cards]

Flying Dutchman well said...just want to add one more point. All I hear is that JAM makes no adjustments...well that is BS...the fact of the matter is that they had a good scheme against the press if you bothered to really watch except for the fact that Wormley was flat out horrible inbounding the ball...JAM moved on to Buie who was a bit better...then they adjusted even further when one of our guards; JWF or Ray was trying to get past half-court and they turned it over...we then inbounded the ball and whomever got the pass got it back to the PG who then got the ball up the court. IMO we had a good plan that was POORLY executed...for whatever reasons...you can all pick.

HUSID - I noticed the same changes against the press that you did. The quick inbound and then drop it back to the point worked better than the previous approaches. And yes, there were some other changes made to try and beat the press - just took too long in my opinion. Where I did not see ANY adjustments were on offense. The entire offense was pass around the perimeter and then have someone go one on one. Other than RG setting a few screens (which in my opinion are many times way too far out to do any good), there were no screens set, no passing inside, or inside to back out (which RG does fairly well), no work between the guards to help each other get open. Simply no flow to the offense. And because of it, they look inept and lost.

We all want the team to do well and to put up 20+ win seasons. Maybe I want too much, but want them to become a solid powerful mid major program. I just don't see us going that route. Is it recruiting, the player mix, the coaching, the Long Island attitude toward college sports - - I don't know. Its just very frustrating when the school says they want the same as I do. I don't know, is it just words? Without the win over Monmouth (which we had no business winning), we would have a .500 OOC record. That's not acceptable to me, maybe it is to others.

See you tomorrow night guys. Go Pride!