Game#6 Siena

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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby Flying Dutchmen » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:07 pm

stuball888 wrote:HUsid you said our forwards dont crash the boards because they are not athletic enough. How about our guards. You dont think they are athletic enough. Sienas guards Penn 5ft11 had 4 boards Clareth 6ft5 3 boards Bentley 6ft2 5 boards and shivers 6ft4 5 boards and kahil 6ft0 2 boards. Thats 19 rebounds., Our back court Forman with 3 and Pemba with 7. While in the grand scheme of things yes the OOC loss does not have as much weight as a conference game its still important to keep up and create new fans. By your way of thinking even conference games mean squat as the only games that are important are the 3 to 4 games in the CAA torurnament. A team could go winless and win 4 games in the tourney they are in the NCAAs.


We had 20 offensive rebounds against Siena, we've been a solid rebounding team this season, it's one of our strengths IMO.

I have to side with HUSID as the voice of reason on this one, we've flashed potential, and looking back, we really didn't hit our stride in '16 until conference play, late in conference play. I actually think we have a better team this year, but it's going to take some time to get all the pieces working together. I cant look at this season as a success or failure until we're about half way through the CAA slate. Note that the CAA is down this year, UNCW is getting smoked, Drexel just lost to NJIT

The one caveat being, hey, let's utilize our depth a little and switch the defense around, then maybe we can win some games shooting 40%, Pecora made a living doing that.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby stuball888 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:44 pm

Explain then how we got outrebouded by Siena
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby stuball888 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:46 pm

If rebounding is our strength. So far this year we are being outrebounded. Not a good sign
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby stuball888 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:48 pm

Nobody is calling this year a failure. Way to early. Still there are red lights with our defense. Stagnant offense and a coach who makes no adjustments what so ever
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby Flying Dutchmen » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:04 pm

stuball888 wrote:Explain then how we got outrebouded by Siena


You tend to get outrebounded when you shoot 37% and the opposition shoots 58%. The amount of rebounds doesn't necessarily matter, compared to the percentages of rebounding opportunities. We're currently the 64th best offensive rebounding team in the country. Offensively, our problem has been we're not shooting the ball consistently, as we saw on Saturday.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby stuball888 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:13 pm

Our problem is we have one rebounder while other teams share it among a few players. In the Siena game got got 20 offensive boards and still got outrebounded.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby stuball888 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:15 pm

Its not just rebounding. defense has been a problem for the last 4 years. teams have a field day against us. Also how many players have scored their career highs against us.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby HUSID74 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:27 pm

stuball888 wrote:HUsid you said our forwards dont crash the boards because they are not athletic enough. How about our guards. You dont think they are athletic enough. Sienas guards Penn 5ft11 had 4 boards Clareth 6ft5 3 boards Bentley 6ft2 5 boards and shivers 6ft4 5 boards and kahil 6ft0 2 boards. Thats 19 rebounds., Our back court Forman with 3 and Pemba with 7. While in the grand scheme of things yes the OOC loss does not have as much weight as a conference game its still important to keep up and create new fans. By your way of thinking even conference games mean squat as the only games that are important are the 3 to 4 games in the CAA torurnament. A team could go winless and win 4 games in the tourney they are in the NCAAs.


Not what I said Stu...God, our next game can't come soon enough...then we will have at least another dozen or so coaching/playing insights win or lose.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby stuball888 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:58 pm

If we don’t blow them out by at least 20 something is wrong. John if we lose to Molloy then will you admit something’s wrong
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby HUSID74 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:26 pm

stuball888 wrote:If we don’t blow them out by at least 20 something is wrong. John if we lose to Molloy then will you admit something’s wrong


Stu, I'll give you 20, what's the bet?
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby stuball888 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:05 pm

we are not supposed to gamble on this site its forbidden
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby triplec2195 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:45 am

My recollection the last time we played Molloy we won by around 30 after a sluggish and close first half. I don't like these kind of games because there's no upside for the Div one team. If they blow them out everyone will say so what there D-2 but if the game is close then we have to listen to Hofstra didn't play that well. Just like the games in Canada playing lesser opponents lends itself to overconfidence. I don't have a problem with someone saying they're going to beat a D-2 team by 20 but whoever thought we could possibly beat Siena by 20 at home was being delusional. We may have beat them by 20 last year in Hempstead but two different teams and a different venue. IMO a meaningless game maybe the only redeeming value will be to work on their defense but still against an inferior opponent!
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby stuball888 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:18 am

Triple while Siena at Home is a different animal than on the road. It is a different team from years past. They are very young and start 3 freshmen. Look at their first 4 games and it looks pathetic. They play us and look like world beaters. Again they did lose to d2 LeMoyne even though it was an exhibition it was to ad you say an inferior opponent FGCu blew them out by 40 and Bucknell scored 115 in a 27 point blowout. This team was pick what 4th in the CAA. They sure are not playing like it now. I️ think you are right in we can’t rake away too much from the Molloy game. But if we stink up against SBU then the red flags go up
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby Polito » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:45 am

This next game will offer no further insight. It's Molloy. It will be the following games that we are able to gain more perspective, good or bad.

I'm not a fan either, BUT I did speak to a coach about this - #1, every school plays at least one. #2, they cost next to nothing to play - and a new insight for me was that it costs money for any school to come play on your court - a LOT of money. I always thought it was just the big boys that paid the lowers to play at their place, but it's everyone. If you want St Francis on your floor, you are gonna pay them well for that game. It's really not worth it. So these games help financially. #3 they have no impact on RPI. #4 they offer the chance to work on things.

I didn't see anyone say HU would or should be Siena by 20, but perhaps I missed it. What I did see, and felt myself, is that HU should absolutely win.

I don't think rebounding is the primary issue, although fully agree it's dependent on 1-2 guys. The issues are of course defense and the fact that this is once again not a very good shooting team, yet the staff keeps playing games like they are. <-- this is a recurring theme, and a MAJOR issue for me. When exactly does the learning from mistakes occur?

In 5 years this staff should've been able to recognize what they are and what they aren't, and recruit the type of players necessary to win with their desired system. Still not seeing that, see a lot of forcing square pegs into round holes, and it's very fair to question 'why'?

And now apparently just 6 games into a vital and opportunity ripe season, effort, focus, and motivation are an issue :shock: :? :roll: :x

HUSID, I am not trying to take away from the Dayton win. I have given big credit to the team for a strong W - that is a quality W no matter how it came about. But if you don't think it had to do with timing you are fooling yourself. This is not a rematch HU wants any part of by end of year, or going forward as Grant gets his foundation in place. That is also why this W is going to continue to be a good one as the year progresses.

For the record, here was my take on this game from July 31st:

But I'll tell ya, I think HU can make noise in this Charleston tourney - I very much like the Dayton draw - I think HU matches up very well with them, size/position and talent - they have a new coach (familiar foe Anthony Grant), a different roster with some newer/unproven players, and I think they are beatable at this stage - one big coming off injury I believe, another key guy redshirting, just a new look all around for them from what I can tell - I probably wouldn't like it much in a couple of years once Grant gets his system and players in place, but right now this is a game up for grabs, and I think HU is ripe for it.


I'd say that's calling the opportunity and the fact that the timing is right perfectly.

I'd pull my posts on Wormley too, but that would just be bragging.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby triplec2195 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:40 am

I hadn't really looked up the stats on Siena but now I have and it seems to me some exaggerated narratives here. I for one know they have a good basketball tradition and we've seen the kind of following they have. Siena to really state the record correctly lost to COC in O/T the team predicted to win the Colonial. They lost to Bucknell by 23 points a team that went 26-9 last year and went to the NCAA'S. Bucknell brings back all their starters from last years NCAA team and predicted to win the Patriot league again. They lost to Florida Gulf Coast by 33 points a team that went 26-8 last year and went to the NCAA's who bring back the nucleus of last years team and predicted to win the conference and return to the NCAA's. It's not that difficult to bolster ones argument using misleading stats without telling the entire story. It's not unreasonable to see how a young team could get blown out by a seasoned NCAA experienced team like a Bucknell or FGCU. I think you guys are wrong assuming this team stinks because of their win less record and that automatically Hofstra would roll over them on the road. I'll say it again We'll see where Siena stands at the end of the year and more importantly where Hofstra stands as they start playing meaningful games in the Colonial.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby HUSID74 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:14 pm

Polito, how can you judge a player after only 8 games....Wormely has been put into the toughest role for a new player; point guard...he has size, athleticism and can play defense, although right now he is fouling too much....he exhibits all the traits of someone who is trying too hard to fit in to this team right now...I can go on but the OOC for better or for worse is the PREPARE for the CAA...I have been saying that FOREVER...now is the time to find out WHO CAN DO WHAT on this team...Let's all relax a bit and enjoy the season...I for one believe we will compete for the CAA title barring any catastrophic injuries.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby triplec2195 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:05 am

HUSID74 wrote:Polito, how can you judge a player after only 8 games....Wormely has been put into the toughest role for a new player; point guard...he has size, athleticism and can play defense, although right now he is fouling too much....he exhibits all the traits of someone who is trying too hard to fit in to this team right now...I can go on but the OOC for better or for worse is the PREPARE for the CAA...I have been saying that FOREVER...now is the time to find out WHO CAN DO WHAT on this team...Let's all relax a bit and enjoy the season...I for one believe we will compete for the CAA title barring any catastrophic injuries.


Husid I kind of like where you are coming from in this post. It apparently doesn't matter all that much who's starting at the PG position since it seems like they both are playing similar minutes. We have about a month or so to become a well oiled cohesive unit going into CAA play and let's hope we have good choices as to who will be getting playing time based on results. This team has a lot deeper bench then last years team and remember JWF wasn't starting at this time last year getting about 18 minutes a game. That was a mistake but now he's an established player on this team. It's about the other two pieces of the puzzle that have to fit not the core three; JWF,EP AND ROK. Yes let's relax and enjoy it as it plays out hopefully for the best!
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby joeg1 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:48 am

It's not written in stone that either of our two presumptive PGs need to start/play big minutes if they are ineffective. We have other options. However, I still like Buie to take the mantle. Still recovering from a serious injury, and needs a little more time.
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby Cards » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:30 am

I am sooooooo tired of hearing that winning during the OOC doesn't matter. I'm sooooooo tired of hearing we only need to play well when the CAA schedule starts. Its all such BS! By that logic, the only thing that matters is finishing in the top 6 in the CAA so you get a bye in the first round. So lets shoot for a .500 Record and finish 5th or 6th in the regular season. If we start winning toooooo much, lets sit our top players for a few games and let them rest and avoid injury. Then we can begin the playoffs with fresh legs - because thats the only season (albeit 3 games long) that matters! Finally, I'm sure the current and prospective fan base will understand and be only tooooo willing to attend losing home games knowing the true strategy.

Speaking for myself, I love watching us lose home OOC games. The silence from the crowd at the Mack is really refreshing! And if no one shows up, heck, I can get a pretzel or hit the head and not have to wait on line - cool! And I can relax and be confident that losses will only ensure more losses in future years with challenges to recruiting. Whew - thank goodness I know I'll be able to get my same season tickets seat locations next year. I wish all our away games were close to home so that I could go watch a .500 team more often.

You guys all crack me up. You settle for so little and have your sights set so low. I want to WIN. Winning creates excitement, buzz, recruits, fans, money, and championships!
Come on guys - get with it!
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Re: Game#6 Siena

Postby HUSID74 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:19 am

Cards wrote:I am sooooooo tired of hearing that winning during the OOC doesn't matter. I'm sooooooo tired of hearing we only need to play well when the CAA schedule starts. Its all such BS! By that logic, the only thing that matters is finishing in the top 6 in the CAA so you get a bye in the first round. So lets shoot for a .500 Record and finish 5th or 6th in the regular season. If we start winning toooooo much, lets sit our top players for a few games and let them rest and avoid injury. Then we can begin the playoffs with fresh legs - because thats the only season (albeit 3 games long) that matters! Finally, I'm sure the current and prospective fan base will understand and be only tooooo willing to attend losing home games knowing the true strategy.

Speaking for myself, I love watching us lose home OOC games. The silence from the crowd at the Mack is really refreshing! And if no one shows up, heck, I can get a pretzel or hit the head and not have to wait on line - cool! And I can relax and be confident that losses will only ensure more losses in future years with challenges to recruiting. Whew - thank goodness I know I'll be able to get my same season tickets seat locations next year. I wish all our away games were close to home so that I could go watch a .500 team more often.

You guys all crack me up. You settle for so little and have your sights set so low. I want to WIN. Winning creates excitement, buzz, recruits, fans, money, and championships!
Come on guys - get with it!

Except for the fact that there are no home OOC games to speak of and those we have don't/can't draw flies...I for one want us to do well in OOC games for all the reasons that have been articulated by others; BUT in the grand scheme of things, with a one bid League, it's important to GET READY for the CAA schedule...so if that means losing a game or to to find out what we have on this team going forward, so be it!
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