Hofstra @ UNCW

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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby EvanJ » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 pm

Wags wrote:And it would give them a 12-6 conference record. I don't know the numbers historically (maybe Evan can tell us), but I doubt many teams (if any) have reached the CAA finals with >6 conference losses. I'd bet that three years ago, when the top four teams were all 12-6, might be the only time a team as many as 6 conference losses won the tourney, and possibly the same for just reaching the CAA finals. I know every year is its own, but lose any of these final four regular season games and the odds would seem to go way down at least from that historical perspective.

Because the amount of CAA games has changed, I looked for Finalists who won fewer than two-thirds of their CAA games (excluding exactly two-thirds). Out of 35 CAA Finals, 5 champions and 12 losers won fewer than two-thirds of their CAA games. In 1996-1997 the best record was 10-6. Four teams reached the Final at .500 or worse, East Carolina won it in 1992-1993 after being 4-10, James Madison lost it in 1996-1997 after being 8-8, UNC Wilmington won it in 1999-2000 after being 8-8, and George Mason lost it in 2006-2007 after being 9-9. This happened more often before Hofstra joined the CAA. In 19 CAA Finals before Hofstra joined, 4 champions and 8 losers won fewer than two-thirds of their CAA games. In 16 CAA Finals when Hofstra was in the CAA, 1 champion (James Madison at 11-7 in 2012-2013 when they had to play in the first Four) and 4 losers won fewer than two-thirds of their CAA games.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby HUSID74 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:59 pm

HU76 wrote:
krood wrote:
Hofstra wrote:People go back and forth after every game. The lines in the sand have been drawn. Regardless of what happens, people will bash the staff, and people will tell us that the staff is amazing. No point in defending your point anymore as all minds are made up it seems. We can come back to this topic once we don't win down in Charleston. I hope we do win though.


I am proud to be in the 'can do' camp with this staff.

We have seen programs grab at the next 'shiny object' only to go backwards and even hit bottom. Once that happens its tough to rebuild.

Our program was there in 2013 (7-25, not to mention the embarrassment of that scandal)

Two 20+ wins seasons (and a Regular Season CAA Championship), a rebuild year LY has us poised for another 20 win season and a #4 seed in a league where any of the Top 4 can clinch the NCAA-T bid.

Winning in Charleston on a contender's home court should not be the only criteria for success. I love to see 4-yr kids like Gustys develop into one of Hofstra's great's, JWR go from a bench-player to a 2,000pt scorer and now see similar potential with Pemberton (Soph) and Ray (Frosh). And most importantly, if you have heard them introduce themselves at the Open Practice in December, they are good kids!

Obviously, they got my vote!


Anything can happen in the CAA tournament and this team has enough talent to win it all. As I recall, the 75-76 team at one point was 10-10 and had lost to CW Post (I think). They made some adjustments (Tomlin at point) and went on that great winning streak right through the ECC tournament and almost beat UConn in the first round of the NCAAs.


HU76 you are correct. I was the SID back then and we were 10-10 after losing at Dartmouth. The team had a players only meeting and they went on to winning 8 out of 9 with the only loss at Virginia. We were up 13 vs UCONN at the half and lost in OT. Back then only 32 teams went to the NCAAs, much tougher then. Had we beaten UCONN we would have played undefeated Rutgers for a shot at the Elite Eight....Ya never know...Keep the faith!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby krood » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:37 pm

HU76 wrote:
krood wrote:
Hofstra wrote:People go back and forth after every game. The lines in the sand have been drawn. Regardless of what happens, people will bash the staff, and people will tell us that the staff is amazing. No point in defending your point anymore as all minds are made up it seems. We can come back to this topic once we don't win down in Charleston. I hope we do win though.


I am proud to be in the 'can do' camp with this staff.

We have seen programs grab at the next 'shiny object' only to go backwards and even hit bottom. Once that happens its tough to rebuild.

Our program was there in 2013 (7-25, not to mention the embarrassment of that scandal)

Two 20+ wins seasons (and a Regular Season CAA Championship), a rebuild year LY has us poised for another 20 win season and a #4 seed in a league where any of the Top 4 can clinch the NCAA-T bid.

Winning in Charleston on a contender's home court should not be the only criteria for success. I love to see 4-yr kids like Gustys develop into one of Hofstra's great's, JWR go from a bench-player to a 2,000pt scorer and now see similar potential with Pemberton (Soph) and Ray (Frosh). And most importantly, if you have heard them introduce themselves at the Open Practice in December, they are good kids!

Obviously, they got my vote!


Anything can happen in the CAA tournament and this team has enough talent to win it all. As I recall, the 75-76 team at one point was 10-10 and had lost to CW Post (I think). They made some adjustments (Tomlin at point) and went on that great winning streak right through the ECC tournament and almost beat UConn in the first round of the NCAAs.


Yes, I was in that locker room....
We lost on the road to Dartmouth to drop to 10-10. Our closed locker room focused on 'staying together' as a team and to this day I credit Bernard Tomlin for the turnaround as he committed to be our PG so I could play 2-guard, my natural position.
The next game with Tomlin at PG and Rood 2G, we beat Fairfield and by 15 at home and yours truly had 32pts, with Tomlin running team and Irving grabbing 19 boards.
Two weeks later we beat Temple at Home to take over the league lead again lead by Tomlin's leadership, my 22 pts. and Irvings' 21 boards.
From there, the rest is Dutchmen history!!
Aside from reliving the past, the story is an example of how a team can come together and peak at the right time!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:53 pm

krood wrote:
HU76 wrote:
krood wrote:the story is an example of how a team can come together and peak at the right time!

We have all seen countless examples of that, not only in college hoops, but in team sports in general.

Those who doubt it with this team are waiting for this team to show a consistent sign that could happen this year. So far, they've teased with showing flashes of that, but no extended, reliable indication that the switch will suddenly slip and they'll peak at just the right time. Only four regular season games left. Time is running out to demonstrate that.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Polito » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:00 pm

I get what you guys are saying, and yes, anything can and often does happen in college hoops - I'm working hard to stay on a more positive believing side, as I know this team has the talent... get to the champ game and roll the dice. BUT they have to actually get to that game.

Now, I will also caution with trying to use one of the greatest mens teams in HU history as the example lol - trying to compare the teams they were beating or even losing to with the teams this yrs squad is playing is night and day.

I understand teams can turn it around, but this years team hasn't won 8 out of 9, didn't beat the likes of Temple this late in the year, and didn't lose to UVA, it got crushed by the 8th place team in the conf by 20 just 5 games out from the end of the season.

The differences are glaring. Not even close to the same.

Attempting to justify this loss this late in the year to one of the conferences worst teams does not help. It was simply a clunker awful showing.

Right now they need to come out and WHOOP those little napoleons - one good thing this team has going for it is their never-give-up approach. They have shown to have a short memory, and need to do so again - only 4 games left now, and there is no excuse not to finish strong - this stretch will tell all, time to separate the men from the boys.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby triplec2195 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:48 pm

Polito wrote:I get what you guys are saying, and yes, anything can and often does happen in college hoops - I'm working hard to stay on a more positive believing side, as I know this team has the talent... get to the champ game and roll the dice. BUT they have to actually get to that game.

Now, I will also caution with trying to use one of the greatest mens teams in HU history as the example lol - trying to compare the teams they were beating or even losing to with the teams this yrs squad is playing is night and day.

I understand teams can turn it around, but this years team hasn't won 8 out of 9, didn't beat the likes of Temple this late in the year, and didn't lose to UVA, it got crushed by the 8th place team in the conf by 20 just 5 games out from the end of the season.

The differences are glaring. Not even close to the same.

Attempting to justify this loss this late in the year to one of the conferences worst teams does not help. It was simply a clunker awful showing.

Right now they need to come out and WHOOP those little napoleons - one good thing this team has going for it is their never-give-up approach. They have shown to have a short memory, and need to do so again - only 4 games left now, and there is no excuse not to finish strong - this stretch will tell all, time to separate the men from the boys.


To add some validity to the above UNCW lost to JMU the second worst team in the CAA last night. It was a low scoring game and Cacock although he had good numbers 16 points and 8 boards it was a far cry from what he threw at us! It's food for thought.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby krood » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:52 pm

Polito wrote:I get what you guys are saying, and yes, anything can and often does happen in college hoops - I'm working hard to stay on a more positive believing side, as I know this team has the talent... get to the champ game and roll the dice. BUT they have to actually get to that game.

Now, I will also caution with trying to use one of the greatest mens teams in HU history as the example lol - trying to compare the teams they were beating or even losing to with the teams this yrs squad is playing is night and day.

I understand teams can turn it around, but this years team hasn't won 8 out of 9, didn't beat the likes of Temple this late in the year, and didn't lose to UVA, it got crushed by the 8th place team in the conf by 20 just 5 games out from the end of the season.

The differences are glaring. Not even close to the same.

Attempting to justify this loss this late in the year to one of the conferences worst teams does not help. It was simply a clunker awful showing.

Right now they need to come out and WHOOP those little napoleons - one good thing this team has going for it is their never-give-up approach. They have shown to have a short memory, and need to do so again - only 4 games left now, and there is no excuse not to finish strong - this stretch will tell all, time to separate the men from the boys.


The point is that this team is good enough to win the conference as evidenced by the early leads vs. CoC and W&M and defeating NE. We MUST stay positive and support this team to as they earn a 1st round bye ... then anything can happen in a weekend. And we are not talking 'long-shot', but rather a legitimate contender!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby HUSID74 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:04 pm

krood wrote:
Polito wrote:I get what you guys are saying, and yes, anything can and often does happen in college hoops - I'm working hard to stay on a more positive believing side, as I know this team has the talent... get to the champ game and roll the dice. BUT they have to actually get to that game.

Now, I will also caution with trying to use one of the greatest mens teams in HU history as the example lol - trying to compare the teams they were beating or even losing to with the teams this yrs squad is playing is night and day.

I understand teams can turn it around, but this years team hasn't won 8 out of 9, didn't beat the likes of Temple this late in the year, and didn't lose to UVA, it got crushed by the 8th place team in the conf by 20 just 5 games out from the end of the season.

The differences are glaring. Not even close to the same.

Attempting to justify this loss this late in the year to one of the conferences worst teams does not help. It was simply a clunker awful showing.

Right now they need to come out and WHOOP those little napoleons - one good thing this team has going for it is their never-give-up approach. They have shown to have a short memory, and need to do so again - only 4 games left now, and there is no excuse not to finish strong - this stretch will tell all, time to separate the men from the boys.


The point is that this team is good enough to win the conference as evidenced by the early leads vs. CoC and W&M and defeating NE. We MUST stay positive and support this team to as they earn a 1st round bye ... then anything can happen in a weekend. And we are not talking 'long-shot', but rather a legitimate contender!

The VOICE OF REASON!!!!!!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:43 pm

triplec2195 wrote:UNCW lost to JMU the second worst team in the CAA last night. It was a low scoring game and Cacock although he had good numbers 16 points and 8 boards it was a far cry from what he threw at us! It's food for thought.

That's even more reason (not less) that Hofstra shouldn't have lost to UNCW by 20 (if at all).
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby triplec2195 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:03 am

Wags wrote:
triplec2195 wrote:UNCW lost to JMU the second worst team in the CAA last night. It was a low scoring game and Cacock although he had good numbers 16 points and 8 boards it was a far cry from what he threw at us! It's food for thought.

That's even more reason (not less) that Hofstra shouldn't have lost to UNCW by 20 (if at all).


That's the point being made here Wags but on two different nights crazy score shifts defying logic!!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Polito » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:59 am

Fair enough fellas, I have promised to be better with positivity to finish the year, and I will 8-) keeping up faith and hope because I love the team, these players are extremely easy to root for... great kids from all indications. I know the staff wants it, never a question of desire to me, so I'm absolutely pulling for them!


Wags, I'm with you 100% bud, not sure if you got that from my post - I was just saying it's not happening under JM lol, and I for one am certainly in no way shape or form cool with that, I'm sure that's quite apparent :lol:

Anyhoo, want these boys to win, rooting hard!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:19 pm

triplec2195 wrote:
Wags wrote:
triplec2195 wrote:UNCW lost to JMU the second worst team in the CAA last night. It was a low scoring game and Cacock although he had good numbers 16 points and 8 boards it was a far cry from what he threw at us! It's food for thought.

That's even more reason (not less) that Hofstra shouldn't have lost to UNCW by 20 (if at all).


That's the point being made here Wags but on two different nights crazy score shifts defying logic!!

I got your point, but it's two differing views.

You're saying it's fine in CAA regular season game 14 of 18 to lose by 20 on the road to a lower-echelon CAA team that you recently beat by 20 because that's how the CAA goes, that's how college hoops goes, any given night, etc.

That's all fine, but I take the approach that if you consider yourself a contender at that point in the season, you come off a good road win at Elon, and yet you're still capable of being that inconsistent, that you lose that badly to a team like UNCW, when you didn't simply play okay but lost a tough one in the end, but you instead got blown out because you fell right back into the same bad habits that should have left you earlier in the season (because that's what Nov-Jan are for, ot iron those things out by Feb and March), then maybe it's a sign you're not a true contender after all.

You see it as just part of normal college hoops. I see it as a red flag this late in the year. Just two ways of looking at the same thing. I hope YOU are the one that's right!
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby HUSID74 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:21 pm

Not to make excuses, but that UNCW game was the perfect storm against us. They had a week off and they were fresh, they had their homecoming with a packed house that was loud, they were licking their wounds from the drubbing we gave them at our place. And, did you notice that they are a different team at home by a WIDE margin...
Still no excuse to lose by 20 but I think at the end after Justin and Desure went out, we had nothing left.

Interesting to see how we come out tonight against the Mary's.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:33 pm

HUSID74 wrote:Not to make excuses, but that UNCW game was the perfect storm against us. They had a week off and they were fresh, they had their homecoming with a packed house that was loud, they were licking their wounds from the drubbing we gave them at our place. And, did you notice that they are a different team at home by a WIDE margin...
Still no excuse to lose by 20 but I think at the end after Justin and Desure went out, we had nothing left.

Interesting to see how we come out tonight against the Mary's.

All valid and fair.

But that was a failed, late-season test.

Do you think that type of adversity would be much different if facing Charleston (basically) on the road, with a CAA title on the line in less than three weeks?

Still time though. Take care of business in these last four games and that UNCW loss is long forgotten.

Not sure if they'll win tonight (depends on if they care to defend at least enough), but I expect their energy to be very good at the start.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby HUSID74 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:23 pm

Difference in playoffs will be that all the remaining teams will have had essentially the same amount of rest and preparation time.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Wags » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:34 pm

HUSID74 wrote:Difference in playoffs will be that all the remaining teams will have had essentially the same amount of rest and preparation time.

I think you may be overestimating that with the two UNCW games. I don't think a 40-point turnaround between the two games was all extra rest and prep time.

I DO think it had more to do with getting complacent after winning at Elon and reverting back to bad habits instead of following through on the better ones after they were established.
Last edited by Wags on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hofstra @ UNCW

Postby Cards » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:45 pm

I have to agree with most of your points Wags.

Agree with all that "anything" can happen in college hoops. Problem is that with this team, "anything" does happen. Just a continuing lack of consistency and the UNCW game was another example.

Should be a good game tonight - hoping we get back on track.
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